I just finished a CNA course at a public technical college.
On our last day of class we had a small graduation ceremony with the students and a few residents of the nursing home where we did clinicals.
Our instructor invited a guest speaker from a religious group she belongs to. The guest speaker preached about her religion and put down everyone who doesn't practice the same religion.
We had to go up one by one to receive a certificate from our teacher and a New Testament book from the guest speaker.
The school is not a private school and has no religious affiliation. This is a state approved program. The program had no religion component, discussions, or learning material. We were never asked if we felt comfortable with this before we were blindsided with it.
THIS ALL TOOK PLACE BEFORE OUR FINAL REVIEW WITH THE TEACHER FOR THE CLASS!
Is this legal?
What would you do?
How would you feel if you felt forced to participate in something like this outside of your own religious beliefs?
hold on, everyone. famous people get asked to speak at graduations all the time--the president, politicians, movie stars, ceos of huge corporations. what do they talk about? themselves and their beliefs. tune into the news at 6 for a complete report. these are a public forum for these people to get their views out to the people. so, this was a smaller group. still, it was in the public and the last time i looked, the u.s. constitution still allowed free speech.
is this legal?
yes
what would you do?
nothing. i probably would have donated the new testament that i was given to the facility without making a comment about it. if i wanted to be nasty i could hand the book back to the speaker later and say, "thank you, but i don't believe in god." (by the way, that's not true.) that should start something! there are always choices. i know some people who would have gotten up and walked out; others who would have thrown the bible in the trash (that's a little out of line even for me).
how would you feel if you felt forced to participate in something like this outside of your own religious beliefs?
i'd never forget it. it will make for a great bit of conversation in years to come when you are sitting around with friends discussing the worse stuff you've had to endure. imagine all the grads who disagree with but have to listen to president bush or some other politician, especially one running for an office, talk at their graduation ceremonies. how do you think they feel?
i especially like the "hold on, everyone" . .. . i'd add that we are making a mountain out of a molehill.
if you only want to hear things that you agree with then you need to find a cave somewhere because life is all about experiencing new things and making up your own mind.
and since you are going on to nursing school, there will be many things you disagree with that your instructors will say. you can continue to disagree but the conversation will be worth it.
i can think of many things that made for interesting discussions - when the male teacher lectured on how to handle a sexual comment or physical touch by a patient (ignore it) . . . . when the psych teacher told us to not get too emotionally close to our patients . . . .
life is full of opportunities . . . . and getting this upset seems self-limiting.
Specializes in med/surg, telemetry, IV therapy, mgmt.
What has that got to do with an instructor having someone speak at the graduation ceremony of a class of CNAs which is what this thread was about? What law did the speaker at this graduation ceremony of CNAs break which is what the OP, I think, originally was wanting to know. None that I know of.
If you only want to hear things that you agree with then you need to find a cave somewhere because life is all about experiencing new things and making up your own mind.
And since you are going on to nursing school, there will be many things you disagree with that your instructors will say. You can continue to disagree but the conversation will be worth it.
I can think of many things that made for interesting discussions - when the male teacher lectured on how to handle a sexual comment or physical touch by a patient (ignore it) . . . . when the psych teacher told us to not get too emotionally close to our patients . . . .
Life is full of opportunities . . . . and getting this upset seems self-limiting.
steph
This is what is kindly referred to as a straw man of the actual arguments presented.
What has that got to do with an instructor having someone speak at the graduation ceremony of a class of CNAs which is what this thread was about? What law did the speaker at this graduation ceremony of CNAs break which is what the OP, I think, originally was wanting to know. None that I know of.
I already addressed this. The first amendment of the United States Constitution.
I would just write a letter to the school administration and give them your opinion, then move on to more important matters. It is a shame that your ceremony was ruined, but it is over and nothing can be done now. However, if you complain, perhaps others can be spared the same unhappy experience in the future.
And I still think we are going overboard here . ..
steph
You've missed the actual analogy.
Public university:Public school::Overly religious guest speaker:Mr. Phelps
The age of the audience is not a relevant part of the analogy but was added to help you guys perhaps see how ludicrous the scenario could be were it legal.
I especially like the "Hold on, everyone" . .. . I'd add that we are making a mountain out of a molehill.
If you only want to hear things that you agree with then you need to find a cave somewhere because life is all about experiencing new things and making up your own mind.
And since you are going on to nursing school, there will be many things you disagree with that your instructors will say. You can continue to disagree but the conversation will be worth it.
I can think of many things that made for interesting discussions - when the male teacher lectured on how to handle a sexual comment or physical touch by a patient (ignore it) . . . . when the psych teacher told us to not get too emotionally close to our patients . . . .
Life is full of opportunities . . . . and getting this upset seems self-limiting.
steph
One of my main points was this all took place prior to my final evaluation one on one with the instructor, which determined whether i passed the class or not. What if I had politely refused the book or refused to be apart of that part of the graduation? Would I have still passed the class or made it to the final evaluation? I just don't see how an instructor can force a student into this situation or why they would want to. Do you think that this little speech or situation is going to change a person's beliefs or religion? No.
This is what is kindly referred to as a straw man of the actual arguments presented.
I'm not distorting the OP's position at all. I'm simply saying that we are going overboard in my opinion and that you would have to live in a cave if you wanted to avoid all opinions.
And maybe we should lighten up and accept each other rather than tear each other down.
The OP's position stands, untouched by me. Some of the consequences however are simply pointed out.
One of my main points was this all took place prior to my final evaluation one on one with the instructor, which determined whether i passed the class or not. What if I had politely refused the book or refused to be apart of that part of the graduation? Would I have still passed the class or made it to the final evaluation? I just don't see how an instructor can force a student into this situation or why they would want to. Do you think that this little speech or situation is going to change a person's beliefs or religion? No.
Well, go ask your instructor then. If this is the crux of your post . . then we've gone WAY off topic.
Public university:Public school::Overly religious guest speaker:Mr. Phelps
The age of the audience is not a relevant part of the analogy but was added to help you guys perhaps see how ludicrous the scenario could be were it legal.
The Rev. Phelps is not "overly religious" and you missed that. He isn't religious at all. He is insane and hate-filled and bigoted and ugly and mean to picket funerals of soldiers holding signs that "God Hates . . . . ".
I would just write a letter to the school administration and give them your opinion, then move on to more important matters. It is a shame that your ceremony was ruined, but it is over and nothing can be done now. However, if you complain, perhaps others can be spared the same unhappy experience in the future.
Thank you. I agree.
I am going to stop reading and replying to this thread. I will update you all at the final outcome of the situation if I hear back from the Dean. I am hoping they change things at the school so this will not happen to myself or others in the future.
I especially like the "Hold on, everyone" . .. . I'd add that we are making a mountain out of a molehill. 
Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN
11,305 Posts
if you only want to hear things that you agree with then you need to find a cave somewhere because life is all about experiencing new things and making up your own mind.
and since you are going on to nursing school, there will be many things you disagree with that your instructors will say. you can continue to disagree but the conversation will be worth it.
i can think of many things that made for interesting discussions - when the male teacher lectured on how to handle a sexual comment or physical touch by a patient (ignore it) . . . . when the psych teacher told us to not get too emotionally close to our patients . . . .
life is full of opportunities . . . . and getting this upset seems self-limiting.
steph