Is it a HIPPA violation?

Published

A couple of weeks ago I went to a party with some fellow nurses. When leaving I slipped on ice and sprained my ankle. We went to the ER where I work for xrays. They drew a blood alcohol level (without telling me) and it was .9... .8 is legally drunk. I was not driving nor was I reporting for duty. I have been asked to come in tomorrow to talk with my charge nurse, supposedly about my alcohol level that night. Most nurses and ward clerks can bring that information up on the computer. Is that a HIPPA violation?

i would speak to the hosptials privacy persion that deals with hippa violations that might be a good and i would also tape record the conversation with your boss or take a witness its better to be safe than sorry.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
There is no indication that it was a related"work party"....just getting together with fellow nurses.

And I believe that the OP should ask the charge what the topic is. And if it is related whatsoever to the BAC...she needs to have a witness or a tape recorder with her.

I agree. I took it as a get together the same way you did and put "work party" in quotes because I thought perhaps that would be the lame excuse given. That still wouldn't make it right. I hope they are held accountable.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Psych/Rehab/Family practice/Oncology.

Howdy everyone! It's HIPAA (not HIPPA), Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. I know, it's sooooo tempting to spell it HIPPA. I do think they crossed the line in that ER though! It will be interesting to see what happens here. I agree, it should be up to each individual to share their information if they desire, but I know many people feel totally free to share everything and anything. That should be their choice.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Trauma/ED.

I have seen docs draw a BAC level if the patient needed narcs for pain but otherwise can't see any reason for an isolated ankle injury.

Sounds a little fishy to me that they would call you in and I agree that you need to either bring a tape recorder (and tell them you will be recording the conversation for your own protection) or a union rep if you have one.

I know for a fact if I came in to my ED for an xray they wouldn't draw any blood, they would write for an out-pt xray and read the films while I watch tv in the break room (as they did for a knee injury last winter). The only time I would have to sign up as a patient is if I wanted meds.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Did they tell you at the time of the blood draw it was for BAC, or did the doc explain his rationale after the fact?

If they did not tell you at that time it was for BAC, what did they say they were drawing blood for?

I would also be supremely PO'd. Agree with having a lawyer retained, and both taping it and having a witness or union rep with you.

Isn't there some kind of law where you have to disclose to the person you're talking to that you are tape recording them? Not sure, but you don't want to tape it and then have it be thrown out because it was "illegally obtained evidence" or something like that.

Have you ducks in a row before you go to this meeting - if you go.

None of their business what you do in your off time as long as it isn't illegal, and as long as you aren't expected back at work when you would still be under the effects.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in NICU, Psych, Education.
supposedly about my alcohol level that night.

Maybe I'm reading too much into the supposedly, but I have a feeling that it's significant. Did the charge nurse herself call you and explain what she wanted to meet about? Or is the alcohol level issue something that you've gotten through the grapevine?

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Isn't there some kind of law where you have to disclose to the person you're talking to that you are tape recording them? Not sure, but you don't want to tape it and then have it be thrown out because it was "illegally obtained evidence" or something like that..

If it were me, I wouldn't care what the legalities are....I would record it anyway...no one but YOU and the attorney you hire should know about the recording...and the attorney is bound to confidentiality.

No one can have you charged with collecting illegal anything if you don't tell anyone...to me, it's the same with phone conversations...record it first, ask questions later...once the moment is gone you may not ever get it back.

I also agree with Eric...that there may be a possibility that it's just a coindidence.

However, if they ask anything about the BAC or bring it up, don't paint yourself into a corner and answer any questions about what you did that night AT ALL! I would just say, "I appreciate your concern...and I don't want to be negative or disrespectful in any way...but I was on my own time, I was not scheduled to report for a shift, I wasn't driving, this was not a work-related event, and I am of legal drinking age. I don't feel comfortable discussing what I believe, is a private medical matter that I came to this hospital to seek treatment for."

I wouldn't answer another question if they ask it and just keep repeating, "I understand your concern, but again, it's a private medical matter"...if you walk into that place with an attorney, I fear that will be too-confrontational and could put your job at risk.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
If it were me, I wouldn't care what the legalities are....I would record it anyway...no one but YOU and the attorney you hire should know about the recording...and the attorney is bound to confidentiality.

No one can have you charged with collecting illegal anything if you don't tell anyone...to me, it's the same with phone conversations...record it first, ask questions later...once the moment is gone you may not ever get it back.}quote

My point is though, in a worst case scenario, if you have illegally obtained evidence...it doesn't count as evidence at all, it counts as it never happened. Not much help.

So if you do anything, do it right so you don't hurt yourself in the end.

You don't need to march in there with an attorney present (highly doubt they'd do that anyway,) but it wouldn't be a bad idea to consult one before this meeting, if you think it is necessary.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in med-surg.

This kind of thing makes me think that health care for health professionals is like dating a coworker at any job--don't %$@& where you work.

And that's a pity, because with HIPAA in place, these things should not happen.

It is the patient's right to refuse procedures/treatments. If you have worked there for 8 years, then you should know whether or not the blood draw was in the written hospital protocol. If it was not and you had not engaged in any illiegal activity (DUI), then why did you not question the blood draw at the time? There was no law broken by you.

Maybe I'm suspicious by nature, but I don't think that the whole story is being revealed here.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Peds, ER/Trauma.

I agree- I would be refusing if someone tried to draw labs on me if I injured my ankle- unless it required surgery, there was no reason for them to draw labs.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Home Care, Hospice, OB.
yes, it is a hippa violation; she in no way was providing care to you and therefore, had no reason to be accessing your records. she should be fired - seriously, this isn't an "oops, i didn't know" situation. to some people, personal health information is extremely private to them, and if it were me, i would be beyond furious.

also, why did they draw an etoh level? unless you were injured on the job or were driving, there was no reason for them to draw it. and they should have at least told you.

in our ed, patients who claim they are injured on the job (and whose employer requires a drug test in order for them to file a workman's comp) are escorted down to the lab where a trained lab person collects the sample required from the employer. the patient knows they are having blood/urine collected for drug screening. to us, we are treating the sprained ankle, not the etoh (unless someone is obviously intoxicated, can't verbalize mechanism of injury, can't walk and has no one to pick them up - we draw to assess levels and determine when it would be safe to discharge the patient...we have held people for many hours). in your case, a sprained ankle does not require an etoh level to be drawn, imho.

i would definately start documenting the dates and times that the above events occured. i would also immediately seek legal advice. and, i would not talk to anyone at work about what happened - don't mention drinking, don't mention the charge nurse approaching you, don't mention the ed drawing labs. all they need to know is that you sprained your ankle.

it's up to you to attend the meeting tomorrow with the charge nurse - i suppose it would clarify what you have already suspected (that she accessed your personal health records illegally). but don't mention anyting about hippa to her, don't question her, don't confront her - it's not your job.

similar situation happened at my hospital - an employee came through the ed for emergent care, and one of the staff members mentioned what had happened "out of concern" to a different employee in a completely different department. this staff member was immediately fired.

:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat:

i would be suing-you are not "exempt" from hipaa protection just because you work there.

imagine if the ed called xyz corporation about one of their employees who was drinking at a superbowl party and got hurt. can you even imagine this happening??

someone's head needs to roll over this.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ER, Infusion therapy, Oncology.

Did she say she wanted to talk to you about your accident? You said "supposedly". Maybe it is about something unrelatd, if not she is definately overstepping her bounds.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion