Is Health Care a Right?

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Just want to see your opinion (friendly discussion, no flaming, please). Is health care a right that should be enjoyed equally here in the U.S.? If so, how would this be financed without breaking the bank? How would you place limits (if any) on health care for all?

Susy et al...

Does it not bother you that your country will pay 4 or 5 BILLION dollars to go to war.....yet so much of your OWN country is without health care?????????

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Specializes in Geriatrics/Oncology/Psych/College Health.
Originally posted by JMP

The US consistantly ranks low on the World Health Organization's charts and indexes..... The US SPENDS the most......but RANKS far below many other nations for fairness, delivery etc.

http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-44.html

So you agree with Suzy's point that the solution is not to throw more money at the problem, but to more efficiently manage the $ we are already spending, and to try and create a societal mindset that promotes personal responsibility? If other countries are doing more with less, then surely we could have the greatest health care system in the world.

Our problem is that so many expect to abuse their bodies for years, and then manage the symptoms of the inevitably resulting medical problems with increasingly more expensive drugs and procedures, paid for by the gov't (i.e. their fellow citizens.)

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Specializes in LDRP; Education.

I also think that our nation's health ranks below other nations because we are a nation of self-indulgence. We smoke, we're fat, we don't exercise, we eat like crap, and our teenagers still keep getting pregnant thus,which contributes to our poor birth outcomes. In another thread there are some of us who like to avoid the damage pot has on our bodies.

Again, change our mindset and our health care system will improve.

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If you take the time to read the report, lifestyle is not a factor.

What is a factor is availability, fairness, ACCESS. Everyone, regardless of their age, INCOME, level of education, etc SHOULD ( and by the way, here they ALL DO) have access to health care. There simply is no good excuse that Americans do not. It should be a right of all people.

Your health care system will not improve until it is stopped being managed like a business and run with fair and equal access.

I remember when I was in the States, thinking about moving there, I was in the back of a cab with a young woman in her early thirties who was driving the cab. She had diabetes, born with it, COULD NOT GET health insurance and lived in fear every day that she would get sick and had no way to pay for it.

Right there and then, I decided not to move there. I just simply could not justify in my mind, working in a health care system that was so unjust.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Originally posted by JMP

Susy et al...

Does it not bother you that your country will pay 4 or 5 BILLION dollars to go to war.....yet so much of your OWN country is without health care?????????

Yes it does. EVERY day.

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Specializes in LDRP; Education.
Originally posted by JMP

If you take the time to read the report, lifestyle is not a factor.

This is not directed at you personally JMP, but I find this very hard to believe. We are the most overweight nation in the world. As a result, we have diseases like heart disease, diabetes - to name a few, which eat up alot of our healthcare resources both in care management and in care for acute problems related to these.

We also have the highest teen pregnancy rate. With teen pregnancies comes poor birth outcomes such as low birthweight, prematurity and other complications.

We still continue to smoke, though overall smoking I heard is down 5% from anti-tobacco campaigns.

Our mindset is totally f'ed up. I just attended a small lecture in which a physician who helps to run an inner-city clinic in our city was examining people's perception of health, namely, obesity. In children who were medically determined to be obese, over 70% of the parents to those children did not consider their weight a problem. How can our mindset not be a factor in our nation's health?

I am puzzled how many people on this BB can state that preventative care will help the health care problem but at the same time, deny that diseases that are resulting from lifestyle choices do not impact our state of health.

If we took two people and provided them the same equal access to health care that you are describing, I am fairly confident that if one of them continues to smoke, drink, eat fast-food and live a sedentary lifestyle and the other doesn't, that the person with the self-indulgent behavior will cost our health care system more in services rendered than his/her counterpart.

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Originally posted by JMP

The US consistantly ranks low on the World Health Organization's charts and indexes..... The US SPENDS the most......but RANKS far below many other nations for fairness, delivery etc.

http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-44.html

Well, I don't necessarily put a lot of stock in what 'world anything' thinks of America...as Europe et al do NOT represent me and seem to enjoy US bashing of late.

The Canadian and British health care system are not without their problems..I hear many complaints...long waits, nursing home placements across the province, etc etc. Government bureaucracy in action and I hate government involvement in our lives anyway...more government is NEVER my solution to problems. :(

Good health care IS expensive and we have one of the best (if not THE best) in the world...or else why would so many foreigners come here for it?

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I don't think people are saying lifestyle choices don't affect health, just that this is not unique to the US. We have plenty of fat, smoking, drug addicted, pregnant teenagers as well unfortunately (though most aren't all of the above;)). The nice thing here is that they don't have a choice as to whether or not they will contribute to their health care costs. If you make money you have to pay for healthcare.

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Specializes in med/surg, cardiac/telemetry, hospice.

So, let's see.... health care is a 'right.'

Okay. Let's pick some random Joe walking down the street, (preferrably one wearing a nice wool coat carrying a leather briefcase), hold a gun to his head and DEMAND that he fund the health care of the girl up the block. After all, she has the 'right' to health care, and he has some spare cash in his pocket.

Never mind that he may want to send his kids to private school, or buy a new car, or save for retirement, or take a skiing trip this weekend. He MUST pay for the girl up the block, because SHE has the right to health care, and he has NO RIGHT to decide what to do with his own hard-earned cash.

I realize this may seem brutal, and a bit over-simplified, but boiled down it's the way it is. If we start deciding that people have the 'right' to certain things, then SOMEBODY has to pay for it. Remember, the government doesn't have ANY money of its own...it's all taxes, which are taken by force (government 'guns' or the threat of imprisonment.) Also, we hand over our own right to decide how best to use our own resources.

And as far as 'access' to health care is concerned, most hospitals nowadays are FORCED to treat people regardless of ability to pay. Not necessarily a bad thing, but the option is there. I realize this jacks up the total cost of care, but until other areas of the health care system (like 'entitlements') are cleaned up, that's the way it is. There are also charities that fund health care... to which a lot more people would be able to donate if they weren't taxed so heavily.

I'd better stop now.... :mad:

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

I think it's a matter of priorities, OURS in the way of preserving good health and teaching good habits to our patients, and of our gov't...I mean like said above, if we are willing to spend BILLIONS of $$$ on a war on terror and maybe IRAQ (whether you agree w/it or not), it seems we would do better in the way of investment in the health of all our citizens, esp those that cannot help themselves. It is really about priorities ...the money is there, just do we want to spend it accordingly??? Just my less then 0.2 on this one. I have no answers here. Just more questions to ponder.

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Specializes in ICU-Stepdown.
Originally posted by JMP

If you take the time to read the report, lifestyle is not a factor.

Defies logic. Also speaks to the validity of the report.

What is a factor is availability, fairness, ACCESS. Everyone, regardless of their age, INCOME, level of education, etc SHOULD ( and by the way, here they ALL DO) have access to health care. There simply is no good excuse that Americans do not. It should be a right of all people.

Yes, so should the right to own a car (after all, you cannot get to work in many places if you don't have a car!). Lets just pay for that one too. WTH, its only my paycheck you tax.

Your health care system will not improve until it is stopped being managed like a business and run with fair and equal access.

its run like a business because our economy works on incentives. I.E. You work harder, you keep more, or are able to live better. We are allowed to chose our hospitals, doctors, and to a large degree, the treatments we can get. We are a representative republic, type of democracy, NOT an empire, or socialist union. We do have equal access, if you can pay. That does not mean everyone is just given everything. I cannot afford to drive a Ford Expedition, but if I made enough, I could. My incentive? work harder.

I remember when I was in the States, thinking about moving there, I was in the back of a cab with a young woman in her early thirties who was driving the cab. She had diabetes, born with it, COULD NOT GET health insurance and lived in fear every day that she would get sick and had no way to pay for it.

Right there and then, I decided not to move there. I just simply could not justify in my mind, working in a health care system that was so unjust.

Uhuh. Well, OUR loss, I'm sure :D

But since you are not affected by it, do not work under or in it, and have no real stake, then how about NOT trying to be so heavy on your criticism, since you evidently don't have a very good understanding of our system. If you get your news from what the World Health Organization spews, well, it doesn't speak well of your choice of resources, since their credibility rates somewhere around that of CNN, Time Magazine, and the Weekly World News (a trash rag).

I'm sure Canada isn't the end-all and be-all of healthcare, yet do the United States Healthcare profs. spend their time bashing it? No, we just don't lose any sleep over your problems.

I spent 6 yrs in Spain, and I must say, I don't put much stock in the statement that the US Healthcare is dead last, either.

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Originally posted by Sally_ICURN

aren't you listening to your all so great "Republican" leader right now? He's saying a whole lot of stuff that YOU would probably completely disagree with.

I heard the State of the Union address last night. If I recall correctly President Bush stated that a national program for health care is NOT the answer.

He is great though.:D

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