Is this even LEGAL?!?!

GadgetRN71, ASN, RN · Jan 18, 2009

Perhaps I misunderstood this quote then:
That to me clearly says that you are leaving/staying over money.

Nothing wrong with staying primarily over money. :coollook: I mean, money is the main motivator for 99.9% of administration's decisions and actions. I too like nursing and care for patients but I have bills to pay and I don't work for free. :no:

OP, find another job and leave..take the advice of the person who said not to get suckered into staying at your current place. They obviously just don't get it. Oh, and try to get a job in a union facility. They certainly aren't perfect, but management isn't allowed to get away with quite as much. Good luck.

rn/writer, RN · Jan 18, 2009

By the way, I am a member of prepaid legal and will be investigating this with an attorney,

Prepaid legal plans offered through your employer almost always prohibit using them against your employer. Sorry.

Hope you find a way to make things work, whether on this job or another.

maestrotee · Jan 19, 2009

Prepaid legal plans offered through your employer almost always prohibit using them against your employer. Sorry.
Hope you find a way to make things work, whether on this job or another.

Dear, I've been a pre-paid legal member years before I got this job. My membership has nothing to do with their benefits package. They don't offer it. However, looks like my questions have been answered so I won't waste my attorney's time and mine when I could be doing other things like investigating the free market of opportunity.

ToxicShock · Jan 19, 2009

Is it legal? Maybe.

Is it ethical? Hell no.

pawashrn · Jan 19, 2009

The question is did they offer the wage and then reverse the offer,or did you negotiate a wage with a written agreement between you and the organization. If you have a written negotiate agreement you might have a case, otherwise I believe they can snag the rug out from under you stating," organizational restructuring" I personally would reevaluate my value to the company and request a meeting with all decision making parties. I would not leave under these terms.

maestrotee · Jan 19, 2009

The question is did they offer the wage and then reverse the offer,or did you negotiate a wage with a written agreement between you and the organization. If you have a written negotiate agreement you might have a case, otherwise I believe they can snag the rug out from under you stating," organizational restructuring" I personally would reevaluate my value to the company and request a meeting with all decision making parties. I would not leave under these terms.

To answer many of these inquiries so far, no, there was no written agreement and, therefore, most likely don't have a case. I have several months of paycheck stubs with the higher wage I have been working for, but no signed agreement. Maybe I misunderstood you, but you would not leave under these terms? What exactly are some hypothetical terms that would make you leave if not taking your paycheck away? How about this one ... new organizational policy ... you must bring a baby kitten to sacrifice to the corporate gods every Mon morning :bowingpur. Would you stay?

bagladyrn, RN · Jan 19, 2009

One very important thing to consider - the current job market. Those who say "Quit" and "Don't bother to give notice" are really not paying attention to the situation with new jobs. As a traveler I can tell you that the bottom has dropped out. Not only are there few travel positions (In my specialty they've gone from 150-200 nationwide last year this time to 14 nationwide this year) Up to a hundred people applying for any open position. Former travelers who are trying to go permanent are running up against hiring freezes, pay and hour decreases, benefit decreases and actual layoffs of nursing staff.

If you decide to go elsewhere, be sure you are hired before giving notice, don't burn your bridges with your current employer, and be aware of the "last hired, first fired" reality with your new employer.

It's an ugly world out there right now and you may have to consider whether the "bird in the hand" is best right now.

eriksoln, BSN, RN · Jan 19, 2009

One very important thing to consider - the current job market. Those who say "Quit" and "Don't bother to give notice" are really not paying attention to the situation with new jobs. As a traveler I can tell you that the bottom has dropped out. Not only are there few travel positions (In my specialty they've gone from 150-200 nationwide last year this time to 14 nationwide this year) Up to a hundred people applying for any open position. Former travelers who are trying to go permanent are running up against hiring freezes, pay and hour decreases, benefit decreases and actual layoffs of nursing staff.
If you decide to go elsewhere, be sure you are hired before giving notice, don't burn your bridges with your current employer, and be aware of the "last hired, first fired" reality with your new employer.
It's an ugly world out there right now and you may have to consider whether the "bird in the hand" is best right now.

:smackingf Where did you get that info. from? Not a bit of it is even remotely true you know.

I'm a traveler too. I had my current assignment locked up a month before my last one ended. I was a little upset with some ticky tachy fees I had to pay for housing (very expensive pet fee, a parking fee that was supposed to be covered) and in short told my recruiter that I did not agree to pay those fees and if pay them was expected of me, I would not be filling the position. He was upset of course, it was a good contract for them and they didnt want to lose it. But, they still insisted the fees were mine to do.

That same week, I had two other recruiters call me asking if I had signed a contract for my next position yet. I told them about the difficulties with my current recruiter, and both had new job offers for me. They were in different states, but thats of no consequence to me.

I had two other travel nurses on my unit tell me they could not find work too. I gave them the phone numbers of the two new recruiters. One said she was taking a break and didnt call, the other did. She got no job offers. I was shocked. Then, the nurse kind of admited to me, her standards were high. There were only 5 or 6 states she was willing to go to, she wouldnt take anything for less than a certain amt. (and it was not low) and wanted daylight 8 hour shifts only. Pretty obvious why she didnt find work.

On the third day after I told my current recruiter I would not accept the position with such heavy fees placed on me, he called back and improved the bargain. They covered one fee, the parking, and switched our housing to a much nicer place in downtown Seattle, walking distance from the place I will work at. I accepted and signed the contract. Then, I got two phone calls, one that day and one the next, from contracts that had been put out for me by the other two recruiters. I explained that I had accepted a position, said I took it because I had good experience with the type of unit I was going to (not a lie) and that was that.

The need for travelers did decrease a little in Dec. But it always does during that time of the year. Most travelers take vacations during that period. Now, in Jan., its back to business as usuall.

I think someone is pulling your strings about the shortage of positions. My guess would be its a recruiter trying to make you settle for less pay or take a position they really want filled (good for them, not so much for you so they will rely on dirty tactics to get you to accept).

The trick to not being taken by recruiters is to have more than one at all times. My recruiter knows I am not loyal to the point of taking a pay cut just to remain with their company. They can access your info. and see who has contracts out for you. I make sure every time I am in the job seeking period, I have more than one recruiter putting out contracts. Every recruiter who works with me sees contracts put out by others and knows offering me a 2nd rate contract with fees on it wont work. I dont get sale lines like "there are only 14 jobs nationwide out there" thrown at me either.

bagladyrn, RN · Jan 19, 2009

:smackingf Where did you get that info. from? Not a bit of it is even remotely true you know.
I'm a traveler too. I had my current assignment locked up a month before my last one ended. I was a little upset with some ticky tachy fees I had to pay for housing (very expensive pet fee, a parking fee that was supposed to be covered) and in short told my recruiter that I did not agree to pay those fees and if pay them was expected of me, I would not be filling the position. He was upset of course, it was a good contract for them and they didnt want to lose it. But, they still insisted the fees were mine to do.
That same week, I had two other recruiters call me asking if I had signed a contract for my next position yet. I told them about the difficulties with my current recruiter, and both had new job offers for me. They were in different states, but thats of no consequence to me.
I had two other travel nurses on my unit tell me they could not find work too. I gave them the phone numbers of the two new recruiters. One said she was taking a break and didnt call, the other did. She got no job offers. I was shocked. Then, the nurse kind of admited to me, her standards were high. There were only 5 or 6 states she was willing to go to, she wouldnt take anything for less than a certain amt. (and it was not low) and wanted daylight 8 hour shifts only. Pretty obvious why she didnt find work.
On the third day after I told my current recruiter I would not accept the position with such heavy fees placed on me, he called back and improved the bargain. They covered one fee, the parking, and switched our housing to a much nicer place in downtown Seattle, walking distance from the place I will work at. I accepted and signed the contract. Then, I got two phone calls, one that day and one the next, from contracts that had been put out for me by the other two recruiters. I explained that I had accepted a position, said I took it because I had good experience with the type of unit I was going to (not a lie) and that was that.
The need for travelers did decrease a little in Dec. But it always does during that time of the year. Most travelers take vacations during that period. Now, in Jan., its back to business as usuall.
I think someone is pulling your strings about the shortage of positions. My guess would be its a recruiter trying to make you settle for less pay or take a position they really want filled (good for them, not so much for you so they will rely on dirty tactics to get you to accept).
The trick to not being taken by recruiters is to have more than one at all times. My recruiter knows I am not loyal to the point of taking a pay cut just to remain with their company. They can access your info. and see who has contracts out for you. I make sure every time I am in the job seeking period, I have more than one recruiter putting out contracts. Every recruiter who works with me sees contracts put out by others and knows offering me a 2nd rate contract with fees on it wont work. I dont get sale lines like "there are only 14 jobs nationwide out there" thrown at me either.

I don't know where your info comes from either. I've been traveling for 12 years now and as I said "in my specialty" (L&D, Postpartum, High Risk Antepartum, Mother Baby and Level 1 and Level 2 nursery - yes I do all and search all when looking for positions). 14 was the number of positions which came up on the search of the site with the company I have been doing business with for 12 years (one of the largest). I am hardly naive after all these years as a traveler, and do not believe the agency is manipulating me - as their long time traveler with multiple return contracts (from hospitals requesting me specifically) I am a valuable commodity to them. I am also receiving the same kind of estimates from personnel with other companies (who are speaking as acquaintances, not trying to recruit me as they know I am not available).

If you want real information on the dearth of positions I suggest you check with some of the other travel nurse boards (not allowed to name them on here) and get it from them also.

Personally, I have nothing to gain from making the situation look bleaker than it is. I was simply offering another viewpoint that the OP or others might want to consider when making decisions.

eriksoln, BSN, RN · Jan 20, 2009

I don't know where your info comes from either. I've been traveling for 12 years now and as I said "in my specialty" (L&D, Postpartum, High Risk Antepartum, Mother Baby and Level 1 and Level 2 nursery - yes I do all and search all when looking for positions). 14 was the number of positions which came up on the search of the site with the company I have been doing business with for 12 years (one of the largest). I am hardly naive after all these years as a traveler, and do not believe the agency is manipulating me - as their long time traveler with multiple return contracts (from hospitals requesting me specifically) I am a valuable commodity to them. I am also receiving the same kind of estimates from personnel with other companies (who are speaking as acquaintances, not trying to recruit me as they know I am not available).
If you want real information on the dearth of positions I suggest you check with some of the other travel nurse boards (not allowed to name them on here) and get it from them also.
Personally, I have nothing to gain from making the situation look bleaker than it is. I was simply offering another viewpoint that the OP or others might want to consider when making decisions.

Oh jeez, my primary recruiter tried to tell me there was not a single med/surge position available in the Calif. area and that WA was the only place wanting med/surge. Then, as I mentioned before, he saw other recruiters putting out contracts for me and he changed his tune (by offering a better contract for WA, he still wanted me there for some reason).

IDK, I just dont see it, the shortage of work people are claiming is going on. But, I'll concede, I was told today by a couple other travelers that the options are getting slimmer. They did agree with my assessment though that if you want to work, you can. Just cant lobby for as many perks as before.

I hope something that is good for you opens up soon. I mean that. I hate to see the bargaining power taken from travelers. If we dont have that, we dont have anything.

allnurses Guide · Jan 20, 2009

Nothing wrong with staying primarily over money. I mean, money is the main motivator for 99.9% of administration's decisions and actions. I too like nursing and care for patients but I have bills to pay and I don't work for free.
OP, find another job and leave..take the advice of the person who said not to get suckered into staying at your current place. They obviously just don't get it. Oh, and try to get a job in a union facility. They certainly aren't perfect, but management isn't allowed to get away with quite as much. Good luck.

Did you read the post I was replying to? I never said anywhere that staying for money along is "wrong". I merely stated that as a manager in the corporate world previously, if I knew an employee was staying just for that reason, I'd have no problem with looking to replace them asap. Someone who stays only for money, is very easy to tempt away. For the security of my team, I'd rather hire someone who wanted to work specifically at my company.

GadgetRN71, ASN, RN · Jan 20, 2009

Did you read the post I was replying to? I never said anywhere that staying for money along is "wrong". I merely stated that as a manager in the corporate world previously, if I knew an employee was staying just for that reason, I'd have no problem with looking to replace them asap. Someone who stays only for money, is very easy to tempt away. For the security of my team, I'd rather hire someone who wanted to work specifically at my company.

Yes, I read the post...my point is mainly that very few people look to work at a specific facility anymore. I'm going to go for the one that pays best, in most instances. Managers have to realize that money talks, bulls**t walks. This is why they're having such issues now..Prestige of a hospital, or the fact that someone may have done clinicals there long ago, or all their family members go to that hospital isn't enough anymore.

And you may not have stated so specifically, but the gist I got from your post was that you do think there is something wrong with staying for money. Managers/adminstrators will do what's best for them, I get that. But, they have to realize that goes both ways. I also think the nursing world and the corporate world are 2 different things, despite the fact that some would have us think otherwise. :down: