Is having a ADN useless these days?

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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Do employers favor those with a BSN ?

Specializes in Psych.

Is it that obvious that I was pre-med? :) I ended up using it to teach for several years, though - and that has added a skill set that I don't think any number of classes could have given me.

That said - I'm looking forward to learning more about nursing - in the classroom and on the job.

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Specializes in ICU.

The Nursing School at my local state university offers 2 options for a BSN. The traditional BSN course plan differs from my Bachelors degree + my ADN program in some very unimpressive ways. They offer a course called "Nursing as a Profession". Really? Really?? Total fluff. I volunteered on various nursing units in my local hospital before making the decision to apply to nursing school. I don't need to spend $916 in tuition and fees to "explore the field of nursing".

The accelerated BSN course plan offers less than the traditional BSN and would still award me a BSN if I took that route. And as it stands, the only curricular differences between the accelerated BSN course plan and that of my ADN program are 2 credits in "Nursing Issues" (more fluff) and 3 credits "Nursing Ethics". I've taken ethics. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to apply the concepts to most situations.

Now, the practical difference between my ADN program and the accelerated BSN program? Over $9,500 in tuition and per credit nursing course fees alone.

Could I get scholarships? Sure I've got the financial need AND the academic achievement record. But why not let those dollars go to someone who actually wants/needs to be there.

I think I'll take my chances with the ADN.

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Specializes in Med/Surg.
The Nursing School at my local state university offers 2 options for a BSN. The traditional BSN course plan differs from my Bachelors degree + my ADN program in some very unimpressive ways. They offer a course called "Nursing as a Profession". Really? Really?? Total fluff. I volunteered on various nursing units in my local hospital before making the decision to apply to nursing school. I don't need to spend $916 in tuition and fees to "explore the field of nursing".

The accelerated BSN course plan offers less than the traditional BSN and would still award me a BSN if I took that route. And as it stands, the only curricular differences between the accelerated BSN course plan and that of my ADN program are 2 credits in "Nursing Issues" (more fluff) and 3 credits "Nursing Ethics". I've taken ethics. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to apply the concepts to most situations.

Now, the practical difference between my ADN program and the accelerated BSN program? Over $9,500 in tuition and per credit nursing course fees alone.

Could I get scholarships? Sure I've got the financial need AND the academic achievement record. But why not let those dollars go to someone who actually wants/needs to be there.

I think I'll take my chances with the ADN.

That's great that you've done your homework. I just don't understand how a bachelor's degree is only a few more credits than an ADN (unless I'm reading your post incorrectly?). At my school, the traditional BSN contains over 120 credits, the accelerated (for students with a BS/BA in another field) is 77 credits, and the RN-BSN program is 20 credits of nursing coursework after being awarded 37 credits for transfer from the ADN.

And, by all means-- go for the ADN! If it works out better for you, that's great. No need to be on the defense, I've actually thought that this thread has been pretty helpful.

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*** Obviously the push to make BSn the entry point for nurses is not about having nurses with well rounded educations. If that where the case then a nurse with and ADN and a bachelors degree in another field would be as good as the BSN but they are not.

The NY "BSN in Ten" is a good example. If the goal was nurses with well rounded educations then nurses who already hold degrees in other fields would be exempted and nurses would be able to seek degrees in other fields, fields that might actually be beneficial to nursing. For example a nurse who wished to move into leadership could seek a degree in administration or management.

I am pretty well convinced that the real reason for the BSN only crowd is to exclude certain types of people from the field of nursing.

Sorry,I just got to ask what types of people are they trying to exclude?

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Interesting commemts from all. Not to be inflammatory,but some areas of the Us are really going to have a tough time if the Bsn were implemented,particulary the south and midwest. I think its due to cultural influences,lack of bsn programs that are close,etc.

As far as the keeping certain people out of nursing comment,maybe nursing needs to be more selective,because I have seen too many nurses who can't spell,comprehend,and have a poor work ethic. The problem with that idea is that people would begin to bring personal prejudices into the mix.(I have seen it happen and its been done to me)

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Specializes in ICU.
That's great that you've done your homework. I just don't understand how a bachelor's degree is only a few more credits than an ADN (unless I'm reading your post incorrectly?). At my school, the traditional BSN contains over 120 credits, the accelerated (for students with a BS/BA in another field) is 77 credits, and the RN-BSN program is 20 credits of nursing coursework after being awarded 37 credits for transfer from the ADN.

The credit difference in actual nursing classes between the accelerated BSN program at the university and my ADN program is 15 credits, 8 of which I've already mentioned are fluff. The remaining credits are pathophys (which is included in the ADN program without having to pay for additional credit hours) and "Nursing Skills" as its own separate, credit inflated class, (IV therapies, medication admin, etc.) which we take for our ADN program as well, but the "skills" are split up into single credit classes with fewer credits overall. The pre-reqs are the same.

Having spent my fair share of time in colleges (I transferred halfway through my first degree, so I spent 2 years at one and two years at another), I know how they work. They are not altogether altruistic. If they were, they'd be free. There's a reason why they only allow so many credit hours to be transferred in for second degree seeking students. They want you to take THEIR courses. Every credit they award you from another institution is a few hundred dollars they never see. This particular university only allows 60 total semester credits to transfer in for the accelerated program. Which means I'd have to take 6 additional credits of some such nonsense that I don't want or need, at ~$250/credit. They're all about the fluff - high priced fluff. They will offer essentially the same material as a community college, tack on additional credits and call it "theory", and charge twice as much or more per unit. They take the irrational social perception that career training at a community college is less meaningful/respected all the way to the bank. Why do you think they offer accelerated BSN, bridge and online bridge programs in the first place? To compete with the community colleges for second degree seekers' business.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Sorry,I just got to ask what types of people are they trying to exclude?

*** People from blue collar back grounds (truck drivers, military, farmers, factory workers).

Another explanation that makes sense to me is jealousy. After all people who attend an ADN program that can actually be done in two years and then do an RN to BSN program are at a huge advantage over the tradition BSN nurse at the end of four years. I have never seen "BSN required" for a staff nurse job and only ever seen "BSN preferred" on the UW hospital job site. I don't personally know any new grads, ADNs included, who where unable to find jobs in the last couple years. Lots of our small rural hospitals are happy to hire ADNs and many have programs to pay for a RN to BSN program. Mine did. Here in Wisconsin lots and lots of people get through the ADN program in two years. A year at a University of Wisconsin school costs about $15K.

Here is what I mean:

Traditional state university BSN after four years:

BSN, new grad, no real paid RN experience. Paid or owes $60K

ADN after four years:

Paid around $6K for ADN in two years.

Got a BSN at hospital expense.

Has two years of real world, paid nursing experience.

Got paid $80=$120K over two years of paid experience.

The tradition BSN is a new grad. The ADN then RN to BSN is in a highly marketable position with two years under his belt and very likely owes nothing in student loans.

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Specializes in School Nursing.

I am pretty well convinced that the real reason for the BSN only crowd is to exclude certain types of people from the field of nursing.

That is an interesting theory. I'm genuinely curious what types of people you're talking about. :o

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Specializes in Med/Surg.
The credit difference in actual nursing classes between the accelerated BSN program at the university and my ADN program is 15 credits, 8 of which I've already mentioned are fluff. The remaining credits are pathophys (which is included in the ADN program without having to pay for additional credit hours) and "Nursing Skills" as its own separate, credit inflated class, (IV therapies, medication admin, etc.) which we take for our ADN program as well, but the "skills" are split up into single credit classes with fewer credits overall. The pre-reqs are the same.

Having spent my fair share of time in colleges (I transferred halfway through my first degree, so I spent 2 years at one and two years at another), I know how they work. They are not altogether altruistic. If they were, they'd be free. There's a reason why they only allow so many credit hours to be transferred in for second degree seeking students. They want you to take THEIR courses. Every credit they award you from another institution is a few hundred dollars they never see. This particular university only allows 60 total semester credits to transfer in for the accelerated program. Which means I'd have to take 6 additional credits of some such nonsense that I don't want or need, at ~$250/credit. They're all about the fluff - high priced fluff. They will offer essentially the same material as a community college, tack on additional credits and call it "theory", and charge twice as much or more per unit. They take the irrational social perception that career training at a community college is less meaningful/respected all the way to the bank. Why do you think they offer accelerated BSN, bridge and online bridge programs in the first place? To compete with the community colleges for second degree seekers' business.

Makes sense. I definitely have been around the college block myself, so I understand what you're saying- although if I hear the word fluff one more time I may go off the deep end ;).

The nice thing about nursing is that there is a freedom to choose which way to enter (though I think this is also to the profession's detriment). Good luck in your program.

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*** People from blue collar back grounds (truck drivers, military, farmers, factory workers).

Not sure what you're saying? Do you think this group of folks are unable to get a bachelors degree?

I think some second career folks take the ADN route, because it's there.....and if it wasn't there, they'd take the bachelors route.

Another explanation that makes sense to me is jealousy. After all people who attend an ADN program that can actually be done in two years and then do an RN to BSN program are at a huge advantage over the tradition BSN nurse at the end of four years.

The problem with that theory is that there was nothing stopping folks with a BSN from getting an ADN. They chose to get the BSN, presumably because they feel it will serve them better in their profession. So, I can't see being jealous over a road they chose not to take.

I have never seen "BSN required" for a staff nurse job and only ever seen "BSN preferred" on the UW hospital job site. I don't personally know any new grads, ADNs included, who where unable to find jobs in the last couple years. Lots of our small rural hospitals are happy to hire ADNs and many have programs to pay for a RN to BSN program. Mine did. Here in Wisconsin lots and lots of people get through the ADN program in two years. A year at a University of Wisconsin school costs about $15K.

Here is what I mean:

Traditional state university BSN after four years:

BSN, new grad, no real paid RN experience. Paid or owes $60K

ADN after four years:

Paid around $6K for ADN in two years.

Got a BSN at hospital expense.

Has two years of real world, paid nursing experience.

Got paid $80=$120K over two years of paid experience.

The tradition BSN is a new grad. The ADN then RN to BSN is in a highly marketable position with two years under his belt and very likely owes nothing in student loans.

As has been mentioned, many areas of the country have different hiring patterns than your area.

Additionally, there is often more scholarship money available for bachelor vs associate degrees (which isn't accounted for in your numbers). I'm come away paying about about $12,000 for my entire bachelors.....and most of that was my prereqs (which I would have paid for with either degree). If I chose to get my ADN instead, I wouldn't have even been eligible for my scholarship.

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Having spent my fair share of time in colleges (I transferred halfway through my first degree, so I spent 2 years at one and two years at another), I know how they work. They are not altogether altruistic. If they were, they'd be free. There's a reason why they only allow so many credit hours to be transferred in for second degree seeking students. They want you to take THEIR courses. Every credit they award you from another institution is a few hundred dollars they never see.

This is not purely about money -- it's about colleges and universities not wanting to award their degrees to people who haven't done a significant amount of academic work at their school. Otherwise, they'd be inundated with people who have done almost an entire degree at some no-name, low-level school and now want to take one or two courses at Prestigious Big Name U. and end up with a degree from Prestigious Big Name U., and the degrees would become meaningless. I certainly don't blame schools for not wanting to head down that road, and for guarding and protecting their reputations.

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Specializes in med surg.
That is an interesting theory. I'm genuinely curious what types of people you're talking about. :o

People that already have a bachelors degree in another field for one. Why should anyone have to shell out a lot of serious cash to get a second bachelors degree in ANY field. A bachelors degree is a general degree that tells the world that you have had the equivalent of 4 years of college education that has included a wide variety of courses. And this is why I still believe, after reading all these posts here and the description of the additional courses a BSN student takes over an ADN student (just the nursing part, not the GE part) its just really a matter of a couple of theory courses, of which I had plenty in my business upper division courses too. In college, the main thing is to be exposed to a variety of different ideas and learn how to critically think.

Nursing is difficult, but its not rocket science. Why discount people with bachelors degrees in other fields that have attained an RN thru an ADN program. They make no distinction in M.D.s with different bachelor degrees.

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