Is having a ADN useless these days?

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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Do employers favor those with a BSN ?

Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.
And this is why I still believe, after reading all these posts here and the description of the additional courses a BSN student takes over an ADN student (just the nursing part, not the GE part) its just really a matter of a couple of theory courses, of which I had plenty in my business upper division courses too. In college, the main thing is to be exposed to a variety of different ideas and learn how to critically think.

The extra nursing course are not just theory classes. We were finished with theory my first semester of my 3 year BSN. And even if it were just theory classes, business theory it like apples to oranges to nursing theory...Why should some with a bachelors degree have to spend a bunch of money to get a second? Quality vs quantity....you can have 50 BA/BS degrees but it does not match a BSN....and it is not that much more; if you already have a BA/BS in another field and then get your ASN the BSN bridge program focuses on those nursing classes you missed in your ASN program; you do not have to go back and take any GE courses.

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I don't think that all BSN programs are just extra fluff. From what I've seen, there are extra clinicals in the BSN program compared to the ADN program, and I don't think any sort of clinical is "fluff."

I also think it's quite disrespectful to the people who have worked hard for their BSN and you people keep calling their courses fluff.

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
People that already have a bachelors degree in another field for one. Why should anyone have to shell out a lot of serious cash to get a second bachelors degree in ANY field. A bachelors degree is a general degree that tells the world that you have had the equivalent of 4 years of college education that has included a wide variety of courses. And this is why I still believe, after reading all these posts here and the description of the additional courses a BSN student takes over an ADN student (just the nursing part, not the GE part) its just really a matter of a couple of theory courses, of which I had plenty in my business upper division courses too. In college, the main thing is to be exposed to a variety of different ideas and learn how to critically think.

Nursing is difficult, but its not rocket science. Why discount people with bachelors degrees in other fields that have attained an RN thru an ADN program. They make no distinction in M.D.s with different bachelor degrees.

The difference is not a matter of a couple theory classes. I see this frequently on allnurses, and it is incorrect.

We have posted examples of courses required for RN-BSN programs. It is typically 30-45 credits of core upper division nursing courses that you have not taken in any other baccalaureate degree program. We haven't even discussed the RN-BSN prerequisite courses that one may or may not have taken in their ADN or other BA/BS degree like Statistics, Human Growth and Development, College Algebra, Nutrition, Pathophysiology, etc.

Previously, when the nursing shortage was in full swing, these differences did not matter very much, if at all. New grad ADNs got job offers just like new grad BSNs. However, due to an oversupply of new grads v. available positions, in many areas, this is changing. This is what makes the issue relevant.

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I have never seen "BSN required" for a staff nurse job and only ever seen "BSN preferred" on the UW hospital job site.

Staff Nurse

Job Summary

UPMC Mercy is hiring a Part-Time Professional Staff Nurse, BSN to help support the MERCY-Adult-Psych - BHU Department for its UPMC Mercy location. The professional staff nurse will be required to work both day and evening shifts. The professional staff nurse is a registered nurse and a member of the care delivery team who is responsible to set the standards for the level and quality of care. The professional staff nurse establishes and maintains collaborative relationships with physicians, other health care providers, patients and their families, to achieve desired patient outcomes throughout the continuum of care.

Responsibilities

- Applies the nursing process within the framework of Relationship Based Care to create a healing environment.

- Formulates daily goals and a plan of care for patients that involves the patient as partner and considers the individual needs of the patient in a holistic manner.

- Demonstrates critical thinking in the identification of clinical, social, safety, psychological and spiritual issues for the patient care within an episode of care.

- Practices solid communication skills, and is able to articulate and translate the patient's condition to other care providers and to negotiate and make recommendations for changes in patient care and unit practices.

- Incorporates national professional organization as well as business unit and health system's goals to improve patient safety, quality and satisfaction.

Basic Qualifications

- Graduate of an accredited School of Nursing.

- Minimum 6 months of RN experience.

- BSN required.

Licensure/Certifications

- Current Pennsylvania licensure as a Registered Professional Nurse required.

- CPR certification required.

RN Staff - ENID/FT/Surgery/6:30-3

I. Position Summary:

The Staff Registered Nurse assumes responsibility for the management and delivery of patient care utilizing the nursing process. Performs all other job duties as assigned.

II. Essential Functions:

The Staff Registered Nurse's management of the delivery of patient care includes, but not limited to:

* assessment/re-assessments

* development of the plan of care

* implementation and evaluation of appropriate patient care interventions.

III. Accountability:

The Staff Registered Nurse reports to the Clinical Director and the Assistant Administrator, Patient Care Services. Performs job duties in a manner that will ensure a physical environment free of hazards to self and others. Supervises and coordinates the delegation and implementation of patient care of licensed and non-licensed personnel for their assigned shift/area. This includes, but not limited to delegated assignments, monitoring of patient care, facilitating problem solving, and education/training of staff. Adheres to the Oklahoma Nurse Practice Act.

IV. Qualifications:

* Current licensure as a Registered Nurse in Oklahoma required.

* Requires validation of competency in medication and administration

* Requires completion of the professional nurse orientation program and assigned unit orientation which includes specific skills checklists.

* Demonstration of core competencies will be completed within 90 days. Completion of unit specific competencies within 12 months.

* Maintain BLS Certification (American Heart Association)

RN Staff 1

* No experience is required. Previous Registered Nurse experience preferred. Associates Degree required.

RN Staff 2

* Requires two years or more of related work experience as ADN, or BSN without experience.

RN Staff 3

* Requires one of the following: Two or more years as a full time RN; BSN required.

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.

Further, this is not about a lack of respect for ADN nurses or their education. I am an ADN nurse. I know how hard the programs are. I saw more than a couple classmates with prior BS/BA/MS/MA degrees fail out because our entire grade depended upon killer multiple choice exams where maybe one or two students out of 30 would get A's.

That is separate from the issue of employers preferring new grad BSNs, though, and the new economy that is allowing them to do so in many areas.

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Specializes in ICU.
This is not purely about money -- it's about colleges and universities not wanting to award their degrees to people who haven't done a significant amount of academic work at their school. Otherwise, they'd be inundated with people who have done almost an entire degree at some no-name, low-level school and now want to take one or two courses at Prestigious Big Name U. and end up with a degree from Prestigious Big Name U., and the degrees would become meaningless. I certainly don't blame schools for not wanting to head down that road, and for guarding and protecting their reputations.

Maybe not purely, but certainly mostly.

The presence of accelerated, bridge and online bridge programs means that it most certainly is about money. If it weren't, and they were so concerned about THEIR degrees, then they would offer their traditional degree exclusively. But to do so would lose them quite a bit of MONEY.

We're not talking about a transfer student that's a few credits shy of a degree, here. We're talking about a prospective student that has completed a degree program and we're talking about an accelerated nursing program that requires a completed degree program to even be accepted.

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
Maybe not purely, but certainly mostly.

The presence of accelerated, bridge and online bridge programs means that it most certainly is about money. If it weren't, then they would offer their traditional degree exclusively. We're not talking about transfer students here. We're talking about a prospective student that has completed a degree program and we're talking about an accelerated nursing program that requires a completed degree program to even be accepted.

???

This makes no sense.

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Specializes in ICU.
???

This makes no sense.

Take a second and think about it.

Examine the quote it references and break it down by the point being made in that quote.

It directly addresses said point.

"Otherwise, they'd be inundated with people who have done almost an entire degree at some no-name, low-level school and now want to take one or two courses at Prestigious Big Name U. and end up with a degree from Prestigious Big Name U., and the degrees would become meaningless."

....Um, no they wouldn't. We're talking about second degree seeking students. Not almost first degree except for a few credits from No Name U.

Here's the whole reference - not just the snippet elkpark chose to respond to:

The credit difference in actual nursing classes between the accelerated BSN program at the university and my ADN program is 15 credits, 8 of which I've already mentioned are fluff. The remaining credits are pathophys (which is included in the ADN program without having to pay for additional credit hours) and "Nursing Skills" as its own separate, credit inflated class, (IV therapies, medication admin, etc.) which we take for our ADN program as well, but the "skills" are split up into single credit classes with fewer credits overall. The pre-reqs are the same.

Having spent my fair share of time in colleges (I transferred halfway through my first degree, so I spent 2 years at one and two years at another), I know how they work. They are not altogether altruistic. If they were, they'd be free. There's a reason why they only allow so many credit hours to be transferred in for second degree seeking students. They want you to take THEIR courses. Every credit they award you from another institution is a few hundred dollars they never see. This particular university only allows 60 total semester credits to transfer in for the accelerated program. Which means I'd have to take 6 additional credits of some such nonsense that I don't want or need, at ~$250/credit. They're all about the fluff - high priced fluff. They will offer essentially the same material as a community college, tack on additional credits and call it "theory", and charge twice as much or more per unit. They take the irrational social perception that career training at a community college is less meaningful/respected all the way to the bank. Why do you think they offer accelerated BSN, bridge and online bridge programs in the first place? To compete with the community colleges for second degree seekers' business.

It's a valid argument in its own right, but it doesn't apply to those who have already received a degree from another institution and are applying to an accelerated BSN program. Sorry.

Edit:

Think of it this way...

Completing an accelerated BSN program doesn't cancel out my already held degree. I would have two Bachelor's degrees when I finished. The University would not be risking anything that they weren't already completely prepared to risk in terms of reputation by letting me transfer in 6 additional credits and saving me a couple thousand dollars. What they would be losing, is a couple of thousand dollars.

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.

I give up. The pervasive hostility and lack of respect for baccalaureate nursing education - the cynicism about university faculty - I just give up here.

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Specializes in ICU.
I give up. The pervasive hostility and lack of respect for baccalaureate nursing education - the cynicism about university faculty - I just give up here.

Who said anything about faculty?

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
Who said anything about faculty?

Who do you think creates the programs and sets the policies you are disparaging?

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Specializes in ICU.
Who do you think creates the programs and sets the policies you are disparaging?

The faculty don't have anything to do with tuition costs or setting transfer credit requirements/limits. That's the administration's job. In fact, I'll bet faculty are also "restricted" in what they can and can't do by credit limits/requirements in some situations.

Edit: Oooooh, I see now...

Are you seriously trying to send out a distress signal to the nurse educators on the boards to jump in on the "fluff" discussion because you're having a difficult time proving a point?

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