Why do some nursing instructors resort to intimidation and humiliation when teaching? I have been taking college classes for years and have never before had an instructor purposefully go out of his way to make you feel like an idiot when you're learning something new. Why nursing? And why is it that they drill into you that as a nurse you are supposed to respect the psycho-social needs of your client and then they do the exact opposite... they are NURSING EDUCATORS, aren't we after all... their clients??
And hurt feelings aside, what about the patient safety issue? How likely am I to ask a question of an instructor that goes out of his way to humiliate me for not already being born complete with the entire scope of nursing knowledge?
I keep repeating to myself... cooperate and graduate, cooperate and graduate but I just can't believe what we're being forced to endure here.
Sigh. Actually I think it's Babs that has hijacked this thread. When the gal said she had learned to fake her way through she didn't mean she was faking the material or the skills, she meant she was faking the confidence because some of the instructors like to chew us up and spit us out and will take every opportunity they can to do it. One of ours will ask you a question, you'll answer it and he'll give you the most disgusted look and say, "What?! You're gonna do that?! And you're sure about that..." as though you're about to kill your patient and are the stupidist person in the world (and he's not particular about who's around when he's doing this). You immediately begin to doubt yourself (because as students we have not yet graduated to being the god that Babs is) and your face gets flushed and your hands start to shake just to discover that you were right after all and he was messing with you (of course when he tells you you're right it's in a much lower tone of voice than when he's telling the world you're an idiot). So now because of this stupid game he's playing, we're all becoming these students who insist we're right whenever we're questioned. Tell me that's a healthy situation.
All we're saying here Babs, is that we resent being treated in a condescending, intimidating, humiliating, degradading way!!!!!!! You are taking your own personal situation and transferring it to this OP. She did not come on here and say, "Oh poor me, I'm so tired of reading all these chapters and doing my care plan all night and writing papers and researching disease processes for seminar presentation and learning skills for Lab and having to get up early for that darn clinical... Why can't nursing school be the easy life?" What she said is, "Anybody have any idea why we are being treated as though we're the scum of the earth?"
But then again, maybe you haven't hijacked this thread, because after reading your replies I'm getting a pretty good idea of why we are being treated this way.
I'm sorry you miss my points here. For the third or fourth time I never said humiliation or temper tantrums are okay. Every crop of every profession (including nursing instructors) has its bad seeds. It sounds like he's questioning the student to make them think twice to make sure that they know that is what they are supposed to do. It sounds like he's trying to make them check and double-check and triple-check themselves. As they should be doing. Always. Because we are always learning and if we ever stop, we become dangerous. I have worked with dangerous. It isn't pretty. Confidence is important but too much confidence in a student (and a new grad) is dangerous. One must never be afraid to admit that he or she doesn't know - but will find out. One must always know to look things up. I don't pretend to be a "god" but I'm an experienced nurse who knows her limitations and has a high (and safe) standard of care. Even as a new grad I knew to ask questions and I knew to check the meds I was giving and if I was unsure about something (as I often was) to go find out FIRST. I'm afraid that has been lost here. Nursing students never quite understand the rationale behind the behavior of their instructors until they get out there on their own and screw up a few times. Then they see. You're SUPPOSED to doubt yourself. And think about it and check again. That's the SAFE thing to do. And when that doesn't happen, we get the kinds of nurses I mentioned above - literally putting patients at risk - and worse. A woman DIED post-op because her nurse gave her a paralytic instead of a pain med and left her to go on break, and she wasn't monitored. A nurse almost gave a patient an air embolism and would have if I hadn't stopped her. A patient's MI would have gone untreated had I not just happened to check in on her and her new nurse. Do you see what I'm getting at here? When the student isn't pushed to think and think and question and think more (however unpleasant the approach may have to be to get the student to prepare better and to realize that he/she doesn't necessarily know - to get him/ her to really think hard) we get nurses who simply don't think. And then patients die and lives are ruined. Not only the grieving family but also the nurse who gets named in the malpractice suit and loses everything they have ever worked for and will ever work for. Confidence comes with time and experience, which the student is just getting a start on. Unless there is some kind of personal insult going on here, and he's just double-checking you on your planned interventions (regardless of tone of voice - wait till you deal with some docs if you take tones of voice personally - it's important to develop a thicker skin) then what he's doing is NOT treating you like the scum of the earth. He's forcing you to THINK. and then think some more. And hopefully to inspire you to study harder next go-round so you CAN answer him more confidently next time. Maybe even quote chapter and verse. Maybe even quote HIM. Sounds to me like what he's doing is TRYING to inspire you to be a stronger and more confident nurse - again something that cannot be faked.
I think the original poster was talking about being intimidated by nursing instructors. If so, then nothing much has changed since I went to school (about 35 years ago).
It may be true some folks believe a nursing license equates to a big fat paycheck, but after standing on your feet all day, putting up with grumpy docs (not always but it happens) and of course my favorite, cleaning up massive B.M. that somehow has found it's way under my patient's fingernails, hair...you get the picture. Well, if you truly didn't love nursing, you'd come to the realization there must be a better way to make money.
No matter what you do for a living there is always going to be someone you work with that either doesn't do their job or doesn't know how to do it. Frustrating but a fact of life. I have to wonder where your supervisor is. Don't they have a clue about your concerns? It would seem some of these issues would have been evident during orientation. License pending or not, I can't imagine new employees are let loose on a floor without some demonstration of their skills.
I can't think of a time when I have been disappointed by the knowledge and professionalism of student nurses or new grads. I admit, sometimes I am a little jealous because they have ten times my energy often taking old problems and finding new solutions.
Yes, I have encountered nurses who don't know what to do in all situations. What an excellent opportunity to share my knowledge. By the same token, just when I thought I've seen it all something crops up and it's MY turn to learn.
I don't work at your hospital so it's hard to put myself in your shoes. But, I don't think I would give up on these new grads. Like it or not, they just may be the ones taking care of you at some point in time.
I don't work at your hospital so it's hard to put myself in your shoes. But, I don't think I would give up on these new grads. Like it or not, they just may be the ones taking care of you at some point in time.
Exactly what I'm afraid of. That's kind of my point here.
Where's my supervisor? lol....I AM the supervisor. Have been for years.
Orientation? Except in the outpatient dialysis environment (10 weeks and the new grad I'm about to mention was nowhere near ready in that time) orientation consists of ...here's where the supplies are, here's our paperwork, here's your customer service class day, good luck...(unless you're in a big hospital - and the nearest big hospital is 80 miles away).
We bent over backwards to help these new grads. Eased patient loads, I took more on myself to do that. Not a day went by that I didn't get tired of hearing myself say, "Focus. Pay Attention." I bit my tongue so many times. Added more grays to my head. The nurse who killed the postop patient is no longer a nurse. Fortunately that wasn't my area. The heparin drip off the pump was another nurse on another shift thank GOD. The rest of it was on my dialysis floor. Taking care of a patient load of my own plus charging plus clinical coordinator plus precepting someone who suddenly thought I wasn't supposed to be able to tell her or show her anything once she got her license - and there was still a world of things to teach her from a licensed perspective. But the day after she got her license she stopped listening. It took me awhile to realize that was the problem but I was too busy trying to teach her concepts that she should have had drilled into her in school, much less teach her to be a dialysis nurse. I went to the administrator and we did all we could to try to help her but it just got worse. Finally she quit without notice. I don't think she's nursing anymore either. The chest pain situation got to her, I think, but sheesh. Even a lay person knows that chest pain has to be checked out. And she flat out lied when she claimed not to know the patient was a cardiac patient because we had talked at length several times about this patient's recent hx of CABG x 3 because it directly affected some care issues we were having with that patient - I took time with her to explain everything every step of the way - We were nice but I know it was showing on me. Other peers of mine share MANY similar experiences and similar concerns. Standards of care are just not being taken seriously by the newer crop of nurses from the local schools. It's frightening. And their instructors are VERY nice and supportive. So apparently nice and supportive doesn't work when it comes to building character in a nurse - makes 'em nice, sure, but they're not thinking and everyone is suffering for it. So we either need a more stringent screening program for prospective students or the unpleasant challenges are going to have to continue so that we graduate people who are capable of the kinds of critical thinking and judgment that nursing requires.
I was one of the lucky ones. Never did I once feel humiliated.
Imtimidated? Yes, but I don't think my instructors were teaching by intimidation. They were just teaching. Nursing school to me was a very intimidating experience. I was nervous and scared taking care of human being for the first time, performing procedures that needed to be maticulously done without error. Many times I felt the sting of criticism. But thank goodness I always felt they were out to teach me something and correct me when I was wrong. And no they weren't always gentle and about it. Sometimes they were quite direct and blunt.
Sorry to those of who are having humiliating experiences. Hang in there and good luck.
Ya know just the other day our instructor was talking to us in class and asked some of the students that had already been through 2nd semester about her being fair and so and so and well their answer wasn't what she wanted. So she blurts out, well I know what the rumors are, I have heard them here and in the community and a lot of students think I am a Bi***, well I don't care if you do hate me, you are working under my license, and when you graduate and get YOUR license then you won't hate me anymore. This isn't a game and you have to learn to do things right. And so on and so on. ANd I actually felt kinda bad for her. But still think that yelling is not the way to get the students attention and make them learn.
New employees where I work have a 12 week orientation. For 12 weeks, someone is going to be monitoring and evaulating the nurse's competence. It doesn't mean 12 weeks of hand holding. There's some very good reasons for this. The nurse becomes confident working in a new environment, they make better decisions and can act independently. But the bottom line is if they are not working out, they can be terminated - no questions asked. No unemployment benefits either.
I was a supervisor for 20 years. The supervisor sets the expectations of her employees and herself. When you get bogged down in too much work you can't be minding the store. There were many times I said to my supervisor I was overworked and needed to either hire someone to take some of my responsibilities or delegate them to someone else.
I knew before the ninety days were up who would make it and who wouldn't. And for those who weren't making it, they knew specifically what was the problem, what they needed to do to correct it and the consequences for not following through.
The incidents you've mentioned are sentinal events. They are supposed to be reported and it sounds as if your hospital has had enough where JACHO would be taking a long hard look at policies and procedures.
If students are consistenly that poorly prepared, you either quit hiring them or devise a system to improve their skills and enforce patient safety. Once they are working for you, it's your responsibility not the nursing school's.
Yelling? no. Degradation? no. Making you feel stupid? Well, remember no one can make you feel stupid unless you let them. Your emotions are under no one's control but your own. But it makes you work harder, doesn't it? Or makes you quit. Separates the "men from the boys" so to speak. i think that's the purpose. May not be necessary for everyone, but it is necessary for some. It's still sink-or-swim out there. And yeah the students do work under the instructors' licenses so there's a lot at stake there. And if too many students flunk boards, the school loses its accreditation. So they only want to graduate students who will pass the boards and they will push the students to see what they're made of. Either they rise to the challenge or they quit. But it is as one instructor said once..."when I send you on your way, it means that I believe that you are safe enough to take care of my mother."
And from what I hear, the schools here are about to lose their accreditation because of the kinds of nurses they're turning out. So see...its NOT just me.
Well said Mariedoreen and ER010. babs_RN your description of nursing school does not sound much different than mine. For 3 years all i did was study day and night 24/7. We are discussing better ways of teaching clinicals in nursing school, NOT trying to make school EASIER. Most students do not feel prepared in the clinical areas when starting jobs. There may be a better way to educate nursing students than the metods utilized for the last century. Such as repeated skills on models (we had some in lab but not enough) or practice on advanced computer software(the kind med students are using now.), or more actual clinical time in the hospital, maybe one on one with a preceptor, not just one instuctor to 6 to 8 students. babs_RN you sound angry and you come off trying to sound superior. Wonder why this subject pushes your buttons so? Are you not being recognized for your intelligence and obvious in depth nursing experience? And i resent you indicating that nurses are entering the field for a "easy" paycheck. That is absurd! Just getting through the dam prereqs is difficult, much less day and night requirements of actual nursing school. And the pay is not that good, the working conditions can be grueling, but the job itself is wonderfully challenging and rewarding. So believe me no one gets through nursing school on some "easy" road. Come on your arguments do not make sense.
orientation? except in the outpatient dialysis environment (10 weeks and the new grad i'm about to mention was nowhere near ready in that time) orientation consists of ...here's where the supplies are, here's our paperwork, here's your customer service class day, good luck...(unless you're in a big hospital - and the nearest big hospital is 80 miles away).
since you are a supervisor, and that does infer that you have some amount of departmental authority, it makes sense to advocate for training in your unit the same way you advocate for your patients. anything less is setting your employees up to fail.
the bottom line here is this: you can complain from now til the end of forever about how crappy, inadequate, or poorly trained your new grad employees are. but, while they are in your hospital, they are your employees!!! if an aggregious mistake is made on your shift with a new grad, who is going to take the fall with the new grad? you! until the institution has a system set up with appropriate checks and balances which includes a thorough orientation, set up with milestones/outcomes/performance checkoffs during preceptorship, it is part of the problem!!
the most appalling thing here is how new grads are left to twist in the wind. because if something goes wrong, it's always easier to pin it the new grad since they are licensed (and we all know how crap rolls downhill right?), than the institution take ownership of the larger problem. how nice.
smart institutions know that investing in good orientation programs actually limit their liability!! if you can't get through to your administration on any other level, throw out the 'l' word, and i suspect they will listen.
a few points i'd like to address as a nursing student:
i've had experiences when i was wrong. we all have! as an adult, i am mentally capable of understanding my mistakes and fixing them. most times i don't even need to be told about it! wow, imagine that!
i've been told in the "nice" (professional) way and the degrading way. the degrading way has made me want to throw up every time i have to come across this particular instructor- even in the breakroom. totally made me lose a lot of respect for this person as a professional. there is no need to be a jerk to people whether you're a nursing instructor or not. don't take your insecurities out on me!
as far as incompetent nursing- maybe there need to be changes made to the nclex exams since passing it does indeed certify that you are a competent nurse.
if someone is barking orders at me or being degrading in any way, not only do i stop listening at some point, but i want to just leave. it doesn't help me learn a darn thing and it doesn't make me want to do better.
babs_rn
346 Posts
I'm sorry you miss my points here. For the third or fourth time I never said humiliation or temper tantrums are okay. Every crop of every profession (including nursing instructors) has its bad seeds. It sounds like he's questioning the student to make them think twice to make sure that they know that is what they are supposed to do. It sounds like he's trying to make them check and double-check and triple-check themselves. As they should be doing. Always. Because we are always learning and if we ever stop, we become dangerous. I have worked with dangerous. It isn't pretty. Confidence is important but too much confidence in a student (and a new grad) is dangerous. One must never be afraid to admit that he or she doesn't know - but will find out. One must always know to look things up. I don't pretend to be a "god" but I'm an experienced nurse who knows her limitations and has a high (and safe) standard of care. Even as a new grad I knew to ask questions and I knew to check the meds I was giving and if I was unsure about something (as I often was) to go find out FIRST. I'm afraid that has been lost here. Nursing students never quite understand the rationale behind the behavior of their instructors until they get out there on their own and screw up a few times. Then they see. You're SUPPOSED to doubt yourself. And think about it and check again. That's the SAFE thing to do. And when that doesn't happen, we get the kinds of nurses I mentioned above - literally putting patients at risk - and worse. A woman DIED post-op because her nurse gave her a paralytic instead of a pain med and left her to go on break, and she wasn't monitored. A nurse almost gave a patient an air embolism and would have if I hadn't stopped her. A patient's MI would have gone untreated had I not just happened to check in on her and her new nurse. Do you see what I'm getting at here? When the student isn't pushed to think and think and question and think more (however unpleasant the approach may have to be to get the student to prepare better and to realize that he/she doesn't necessarily know - to get him/ her to really think hard) we get nurses who simply don't think. And then patients die and lives are ruined. Not only the grieving family but also the nurse who gets named in the malpractice suit and loses everything they have ever worked for and will ever work for. Confidence comes with time and experience, which the student is just getting a start on. Unless there is some kind of personal insult going on here, and he's just double-checking you on your planned interventions (regardless of tone of voice - wait till you deal with some docs if you take tones of voice personally - it's important to develop a thicker skin) then what he's doing is NOT treating you like the scum of the earth. He's forcing you to THINK. and then think some more. And hopefully to inspire you to study harder next go-round so you CAN answer him more confidently next time. Maybe even quote chapter and verse. Maybe even quote HIM. Sounds to me like what he's doing is TRYING to inspire you to be a stronger and more confident nurse - again something that cannot be faked.