Interesting - new "bedside manners" test for med students -

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Jun 19, 2004

You know, when I first saw that on the news the other night, I thought out loud, they are getting to be more like nurses, and it's about d***ed time. I'm sick of docs who don't see the patient only the disease and, it seems, the next ka-ching!

suzanne4, RN · Jun 19, 2004

They had been talking about instituting that for quite awhile. Glad to see that they finally got around to it. The docs are also going to have to do an assessment on a "patient" and ask the appropriate questions and come up with a correct diagnosis......

:balloons:

TennRN2004 · Jun 19, 2004

I wasn't aware of this new test for med students. I posted what is below on a different thread when asked why I choose to nursing instead of medicine. This is part of my reply. (I was also thinking of how different the nurses approach vs. doctors approach are to patient care)

"..the entire philosophy of medicine and nursing have different fundamental assumptions. I believe the nursing philosophy and base my practice on the following.

I was told repeatedly in nursing school "medicine is the study of treating disease, nursing is the study of how the disease affects the person". Nursing has a wholistic approach to patient care. When I walk in a pts room I see the interactions between the patient, the disease, the family- it is all interconnected and must be considered as I provide care. MOST (I stress most) docs go into the room and do not care about anything but the heart or lung and do a minimal assessment of the pt at best. Some don't do an assessment at all, but look at the nurses notes and copy what the nurse charted about the pt. The doc walks in the room and says "I'm DR. ______..." and has usually a formal unequal relationship where the doctor is in control and the pt is dependent upon the doctor. I as a nurse walk in and within a few minutes I'm on a first name basis with the pt, the spouse, and whoever else is in the room."

I am glad doctors will now have this requirement in school, becuase I think it will improve their practice. Some of the smartest, best docs I know have the worst communication skills with families and patients. I'm not sure why this is, but maybe this test they have know will may them more comfortable with this area after school.

alansmith52 · Jun 19, 2004

first they are trying to get more diverse degrees in med school and now this if they want docs that are more like nurses why don't they just take their admisson pool from a pool of nurses.

quick fix to the nursing shortage and better docs in the end

jnette, ASN, EMT-I · Jun 19, 2004

They had been talking about instituting that for quite awhile. Glad to see that they finally got around to it. The docs are also going to have to do an assessment on a "patient" and ask the appropriate questions and come up with a correct diagnosis......
:balloons:

KEWEL !!!

'bout time, think ye not? Whooooooot !!! :balloons:

RN4NICU, LPN, LVN · Jun 19, 2004

Yeah, it will be great if they ever bother to do it again after they pass the test.

jnette, ASN, EMT-I · Jun 19, 2004

first they are trying to get more diverse degrees in med school and now this if they want docs that are more like nurses why don't they just take their admisson pool from a pool of nurses.
quick fix to the nursing shortage and better docs in the end

Whoooooooot !!! Hats off to YOU, my friend ! I do LIKE the way you think !!! Can we get a little !!!

Good one ! :balloons:

susanna · Jun 20, 2004

I don't think its feasible though. The comment at the end is right. Students have to be 200K in debt and then fly over to yet another city to take yet another test for something they should have been trained to know from med school? Maybe if they implement it as part of the school's curriculum?

TejasDoc · Jun 20, 2004

This is not an attempt to "stir the pot". I find myself thinking about the philosophical and practical differences between a doctor's approach vs that of a nurse's approach to patient care. I think it's interesting that this test is being mandated. Still, it seems to me that this type of test (if it is to be done at all) should be done before being accepted to medical school. I can't imagine a med student suddenly sweating "passing the personality test" at the end of the program. I would love to hear others' thoughts about this.

What kind of test do you think this is? It's not a personality test, it's not to test if you're a sociopath or a bad people person. Here's a blurb from the USMLE webpage.

"Purpose Statement. Step 2 CS assesses whether an examinee can demonstrate the fundamental clinical skills essential to safe and effective patient care under supervision. These clinical skills include taking a relevant medical history, performing an appropriate physical examination, communicating effectively with the patient, clearly and accurately documenting the findings and diagnostic hypotheses from the clinical encounter, and ordering appropriate initial diagnostic studies."

These are all things that you would learn in medical school, and should not necessarily be expected to know as a function of getting in.

I would be surprised if med students aren't sweating this exam in a big way. We're talking about an exam which determines whether or not they can get a license to practice medicine, and nobody they know has ever taken it. Furthermore, residency programs might see these results if the test is taken before the application process. Finally, certain schools require a passing score on USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 before they will allow you to graduate. So I think you're wrong, I think people are probably concerned about it.

You know, when I first saw that on the news the other night, I thought out loud, they are getting to be more like nurses, and it's about d***ed time. I'm sick of docs who don't see the patient only the disease and, it seems, the next ka-ching!

How does this test mean that doctors are getting to be more like nurses?

Anyway, I'm not sure how prevalent it is, but this kind of test was required of me in medical school already. Now they're just making it a requirement of licensing. I agree, this is just going to cost medical students a bunch more money, and I'm not sure if you're going to get a better doctor.

TD

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Jun 21, 2004

Apparently these are all things that are already taught in the medical programs, but TPTB are saying that there are too many variations in the different programs. My question is: how in the heck do they know this, and why aren't they just clarifying their guidelines as to avoid having these students travel to prove that they've been taught it? It just seems redundant to me. How would we feel as nurses if we had to do this? I know I wouldn't want to travel across state lines just to prove to someone in authority that I was "holistic" enough to do my job.

alansmith52 · Jun 21, 2004

I think this makes docs more like nurses in this light.

now they wanna know if you can talk to people. now after all these years they think it might be important to communicate. what, you mean you cant just throw the chart down the hall in a fit of rage and expect people to jump. enrolment might go down if word gets out.

you mean that you may have had to learn it but I could count on 2 fingers docs I know that practice decent communication skills. "grunt.. um... grrrr uhhhh whats his fluid status.. grrrr,ummmmm huh.. why cant I get into this computer... uhhhhh they told me how to about a year ago...come on I got a tee time... whats wrong with you people you only have 1000 patients"

I am not kidding I hear this stuff.