If a person codes at Walmart..

Nurses Relations

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And they do not have their POLST form on them, will the EMS listen to the next of kin, say patient's spouse? If she knows the patient's wishes?

Specializes in BNAT instructor, ICU, Hospice,triage.

Our social worker suggested a bracelet. Is that legal/will the paramedics honor this, until the doctor gets the paper back to the patient? It would be so much easier if EMS would listen to the people that know me and know what my wishes are. At least call my doctor if there is a doubt for Pete's sake!!!

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, ASC.
Why would someone lie about that? The paramedics really think that some stranger is going to come up out of the blue and say that they are my spouse? It sounds ridiculous.

The 2nd cousin, once removed, who wants to keep you alive until you change your will.....THATS who would lie.

I thinks it's quite naive, in this day and age, to think that any health care professional will take your word that you are the designated Health Care Representative in any type of emergent situation without paperwork to prove it.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, ASC.
Our social worker suggested a bracelet. Is that legal/will the paramedics honor this, until the doctor gets the paper back to the patient? It would be so much easier if EMS would listen to the people that know me and know what my wishes are. At least call my doctor if there is a doubt for Pete's sake!!!

Call your doctor?? Seriously??

Meanwhile, not rescusitating you when you're down??

You're not really an ICU nurse, are you?

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Specializes in ICU.

Why would so done go shoot up a mall or a school? Their are crazy people out there. I've seen some families get crazy and stupid over money.

It's not for the EMS to decide. That's why there are legalities in place.

If I was an emergency responder I definitely wouldn't go according to the word of Joe Scmoe.

And I've been a hospice nurse and an ICU nurse. I do not believe in futility of care.

And if I ever get to the point where I would feel like suing someone if they revived me, I would make sure I have that legal document on me at all times and my family members would know exactly where to find it.

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Specializes in ICU.

Vtachy, you seriously cannot be an ICU. Nurse, or even a nurse if you think what you are saying makes any sort of sense in the way of liability.

Call your doctor?!? Because we know by the time your loved one gave the EMS your doctors number, and the doctor actually came on the phone you would be brain dead in not all the way dead already.

Critical thinking. Where is your critical thinking?!?!?

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Why would someone lie about that? The paramedics really think that some stranger is going to come up out of the blue and say that they are my spouse? It sounds ridiculous.

I would want the police to verify this. It is a strange world and this could just be a boyfriend or girlfriend posing as a spouse because they thought that is what your waated.

For those who haven't worked or at least not for very long in health care, you may not know all the drama and family skeletons which come out into the open during a crisis. Imagine all of your nastiest dark family secrets being tossed out at each other and all involved. Some want to keep Mom's SS check coming in. Some want the family house and all the jewels. Some just want Mom kept alive out of guilt. Some wish she was dead long ago and may even have been abusing her.

A signed paper helps but even with that you may still be witness to all the stuff which should be better left deep in a closet.

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If a person codes at Walmart or any where else, put yourself in the place of the first responders.

They will NOT have time to look at any paperwork, bracelets , family member statements ... and determine the legitimacy of ANY such requests.

We live in a sue happy society.

Moral of the story .. code at home.. or get over yourself.

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Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

No offense here but really:

Out of 99 included patients in whom resuscitation was attempted, 41 (41%) were successfully resuscitated and admitted to hospital. Ten (10%) patients were discharged from hospital. Seven were alive after one year and six after five years following cardiac arrest. Five of the seven patients alive one year after resuscitation presented with the same functional level as prior to cardiac arrest.

[h=3]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3495840/[/h]

After exclusion of 3,400 OHCA events that occurred after the arrival of EMS providers, bystander CPR information was analyzed for 28,289 events. In this group, whites were significantly more likely to receive CPR than blacks, Hispanics, or members of other racial/ethnic populations (p

Out-of-Hospital Cardiac Arrest Surveillance --- Cardiac Arrest Registry to Enhance Survival (CARES), United States, October 1, 2005--December 31, 2010

So really, this is kinda moot point - few people survive an out of hospital cardiac arrest unless professional (not bystander) CPR is performed.

As a pre-hospital provider, I advise CPR be started unless there is a signed IL state DNR form or obvious signs of death. Nope, I would never ever listen to a bystander.

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have to have the Community DNR bracelet .

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Specializes in Nurse Scientist-Research.

You could move to Texas; they have a long-established out of hospital DNR protocol for EMS. You do need to carry your paper and/or wear an identifying bracelet. Searching for the bracelet I found out several States actually have similar programs.

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/emstraumasystems/dnr.shtm

http://www.caringadvocates.org/dnr/index.php

In an inpatient scenario, you often have the luxury of verifying the relevant relative's identity. The patient is required to provide information about advance directives. If you've worked ICU long enough you know that often enough you have relatives who disagree on resuscitation. Think about it; if you "go down" at Wallie-World with your husband of 20 years, he will likely give good guidance on your wishes. What happens if you happen to be out with your cousin Sally; you guys like each other pretty well, but she's not really in the loop about your DNR status. If EMS asks her (your closest relative they know at the time you go down) and she says "I don't know? Maybe I should call her husband? Should I call her doctor? Can y'all hold on a sec, let's see. . . her last name's Smith, which Smith is her husband?. . . " This is a much more likely scenario than a devious relative; just a clueless relative, or friend who wants you to have the "best care".

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Specializes in Emergency Department.
And they do not have their POLST form on them, will the EMS listen to the next of kin, say patient's spouse? If she knows the patient's wishes?

Absent any documentation, then answer is no. EMS will not listen to next of kin/spouse. They will go full-tilt-boogie on that code until one of two things happens: the patient meets determination of death criteria on scene or the patient is delivered to the hospital ED.

If anyone has a POLST or DNR order... they'd better have a bracelet or medallion that is locally recognized.

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I'm just a student, so I might be misunderstanding this completely.

If a person coded in front of me in Wal-Mart, I would immediately have someone call 911 while I began CPR.

Getting sued for this because the person is a DNR? I wouldn't know or think to check unless they had it tattooed on their forehead.

Is this not covered under the Good Samaritan Law?

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