If they can ask for it..they aren't too sedated...

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I recently had a patient on my unit that had fractures to BLE. She had been high when she wrecked. This patient had surgery, then went to a physical rehab center. She was back again to have her external fixator removed.

She was her for SIX weeks.

When I had her, she had:

A dilaudid PCA with the maximum dose for her height and weight

Two Percocet 10 mg ordered q 4 hours for "breakthrough" pain

1 mg Ativan IVP q 6 hours

25 mg Benadryl IVP q 6 hours

She requested her percocet everytime she could crack one eye open. She wanted the benadryl and ativan given at the same time.

One night, while I was taking care of her, she was extremely sedated. She would call out for percocet, but when you went in the room she was asleep and wouldn't rouse to verbal stimulation. When she did wake, she stuck out her tongue and mumbled "Juth put them on mah tongue" even though there were no injury to her upper extremities. She was too sedated to hold a cup of water. Other nurses had poured the water into her mouth. I refused. I told her that I would not give her the pills unless she could put them in her mouth and swallow water. She still had her PCA and it wasn't maxed out. Later, when she was more alert, I did give her the percocet.

She reported me the next day.

My manager wrote me up and said: "If they can ask for it, they aren't too sedated."

I had been taught in nursing school that we are to use our judgement. A physician's order will not save our license. If we give a patient narcotics when we see they are too sedated and a sentinel event occurse, we are liable.

What do you think about my manager's statement? I was written up for "withholding pain medicine". I refused to sign it because she had a PCA. Since it wasn't maxed out, she still had access to pain medicine.

What do you think?

I'm a lowly student and my opinion is only based on my experiences from a traumatic motorcycle wreck I had years ago.

I had a compound tib\fib fracture with external fixator. My pain management was similar to this girls. In my experience the dilaudid helped the pain for about an hour and a half before it came shooting back. I would call 4 my percocets at this time to help the pain. The pain is no joke and until you have experienced it you wouldn't understand. Because of sheer exhaustion I could fall asleep for 10 minute increments randomly only to have the pain wake me minutes later. Based on what family has said I slurred my speech too. However, I assure you the pain was real and the second the dilaudid wore off it was back. Percocets did very little but every little bit helped. Now I understand that she didn't want to lift her arm but maybe it hurt to do so. I had rash on many places of my body and would try not to move if possible.

I also understand that she came in high but maybe that jaded your opinion of her and influenced your decision.

I'm not saying you did the wrong thing I'm just giving you the patient perspective that cannot be understood until you have felt real bone pain. I am aware that I am a lowly student so I can only give opinions related to what the patient may have been going thru

Specializes in MICU, neuro, orthotrauma.

Fractures are extremely painful, and I believe fully what you say about the pain coming back intensely even when your speech is slurred. I believe you're in misery. But as nurses, we have to balance the pain issues with your vital signs, and our assessment. If you resp rate is 8-10/minute when you're sleeping and you can't speak properly, I can't give you pain medication because it might kill you. Even though you're hurting badly, I have to wait until your vital signs can support more pain medicine on board.

Specializes in IMCU.

I am a student nurse and am not sure my last clinical instructor hammered home the documentation aspect as much as she should -- perhaps next semester they will.

Thanks for your story on this because I learn so much from these forums.

Good luck.

I'm not saying you did the wrong thing I'm just giving you the patient perspective that cannot be understood until you have felt real bone pain. I am aware that I am a lowly student so I can only give opinions related to what the patient may have been going thru

you referred to yourself as a "lowly student", twice.

please, don't do that.:lol_hitti

and, hearing an experience from a pt's perspective, is always invaluable.

i appreciate everything you posted.

leslie

I am a student nurse and am not sure my last clinical instructor hammered home the documentation aspect as much as she should -- perhaps next semester they will.

in the off chance that you're only casually taught about documentation, then learn it here:

that thorough documentation is everything in nursing, and can/will save your hiney a million times over.

leslie

Specializes in Staff nurse.
He went home with his wife - and wanted to sleep with his foot up in the recliner chair so she went to bed after getting him settled HOURS after the last morphine in the ER.

There was no real proof, even with the autopsy, that morphine killed him.

It was a sad commentary on our court system.

BUT, you must be careful and you must document thoroughly.

steph

"No Real Proof"; "Even with the autopsy"; wow, really awful. Wonder if he had a beer when he got home? I would love to see all his labs, medical history, etc. Wonder if the wife had insurance on him as well.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

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