I wish RN schools would quit teaching the RN students LPN's can't do anything!

[Wannabeeinscrubs]

I am getting so frustrated with some RN students in these NCLEX review groups. They keep saying that LPN's can't do any assessments, they can't do any patient teaching, or evaluations, that it is illegal. I think it is important that RN understand the real scope of practice of the LPN. To hear them talk LPN's are no different than medication aids. It makes me sad that they are taught to think so little of our education and training.

[HazelLPN, LPN]

I did not say that the RN is responsible for everything that the LPN does. Please refer back to my post -The RN scope of practice mandates that the RN retain accountability for evaluating the outcome of the patient's care - - -No matter who it is delegated to.

I spent fifteen full time years working as an LPN/LVN. I can understand your viewpoint, however, there is no getting around the fact that the boards of nursing have decided that even though an LPN can perform tasks as well as anyone else, it is because the tasks are under the direction of an RN or NP, etc.

Again, the issue that I had was that it is mistaken that the RN is responsible for everything that the LPN does. That was in my original post, that is what I had a challenge with and I'm glad to see that you understand that.

This is not about my view point. This is a matter of scope of practice. Again, my issue was that another poster said "the RN is responsible for everything that the LPN does." Never did I say that the LPN didn't work under the direction of an RN. I am not challenging you on that, and I re read my post and nowhere in that post did I ever say that LPNs function independently. In my case, my RN charge nurse covered my patients.

I hope we understand each other now and I think we are in agreement.

[NurseSpeedy, ADN, LPN, RN]

Wow. Seven pages of responses for this post and many are just reinforcing the OP's viewpoint that RN schools seem to be teaching their students that LPNs are nothing more than glorified med techs with a nursing title. Everyone is debating what LPNs can and cannot do. Let's just face it. Every state is different. We know what our scope of practice is and we worked hard for our liscenses just like RNs do. We are not going to do something we cannot legally do and jeopardize our careers. LPNs will to what they are allowed to do just like RNs will do what they are allowed to do. We've had seven pages of bickering back and forth. RNs, worry about your license. LPNs, worry about your liscenses. There. now can we just play nice in the sandbox together?

[like_a_nurse89]

Well said mb0382

[momofmen]

I am a newly graduated RPN in Ontario. I have been working part time on a busy surgical floor in a small hospital since I graduated. (I had a temp license until I passed my exam). As RPNs we have our own assignments, do our own assessments, call the doctor as necessary. RNs take fresh post ops but once their first vitals are done and they are stable, we can take over care Our hospital is a bit behind in what they allow RPNs to do. The cno (our governing body) says we are allowed to initiate blood transfusions as well as hang IV meds. Although we learned these in lab, this hospital does not allow us to do them. We do monitor blood transfusions though. They are slowly making changes to work towards full scope. The RNs and RPNs work together as a team and there is no "I" in team not matter how you say it!

[Fiona59]

Here in Alberta, fresh post ops and ICU discharges are admitted and assessed by us mere LPNs

[donnalane]

I totally agree, I have 10 years experience and feel that I am more than adequate to do the same level of care as a RN.

[Lmomma]

Heck, I'm certified to push most IV meds. I've been told by my provincial body that we'll be spiking blood within the next two years. I've never understood why I can do the two nurse verification of the patient, the blood bands, the bag, sign the form and then watch the RN spike the bag, walk with me to verify that we are hanging blood on my patient and then monitor the patient while they transfuse and decide to terminate the transfusion if I observe adverse reactions. I don't call an RN to verify that my patient is reacting.

That only leaves Travisol in the spiking domain of the RN.

In my state an LPN cannot hang blood, or do IV push meds. I am still just an LPN student, so what actually happens in practice I cannot say. I do know at the LTAC facility I did clinical at they were strict about that. Otherwise in LTAC the RNs and LPNs are exactly the same. In LTC there are no RNs to be found, and in the hospitals there are only LPNs in the senior behavioral unit, which is geriatric psych ward. Hospitals are NOT for in any case. LTC, maybe but I would love to do rehab/psychiatric center, MD office or wound clinic.

[IrishIzCPNP, MSN, RN, APRN, NP]

I totally agree, I have 10 years experience and feel that I am more than adequate to do the same level of care as a RN.

What you feel and what is legal and correct aren't always the same thing.

[BuckyBadgerRN, ASN, RN]

I totally agree, I have 10 years experience and feel that I am more than adequate to do the same level of care as a RN.

I find that a little bit scary. Sorry. You can teach a monkey how to do a blood sugar, but do we?

Its not just performing the skills. It's the education that rn's have that an lpn doesn't. Oh, and a little thing called a license...

[Lmomma]

I find that a little bit scary. Sorry. You can teach a monkey how to do a blood sugar, but do we?

Its not just performing the skills. It's the education that rn's have that an lpn doesn't. Oh, and a little thing called a license...

That was a pretty mean way to get your point across. I do agree that RNs license and education is above an LPNs and their scope of practice is and should be larger, but your wording was very insulting and unkind.

[SHGR, MSN, RN, CNS]

Yes, it's true. Different states have different scopes. In my state an LPN cannot hang IV meds (unless they recieve an additional certification for IV meds), cannot hang blood, cannot complete assessments, and cannot do IV push meds under any circumstances. There are a few other items on the "Cannot" list as well.

The thing is, NCLEX is a national test. For the brief time you spend at PearsonVUE completing your test you are not in your state. You are in NCLEX National Utopia Land where everything is uniform, you have all the supplies and assistive personnel you need and all of the options you have to choose from already have a practitioners order. No matter what your state's LPN practice act says about the LPN scope, NCLEX assumes that there are a number of things LPN/LVNs cannot do. It's in your best interests to learn what they are. You can forget them as soon as you pass your boards, but until you get your license it's a good idea to know them. If you get delegation questions on your test you must assume that you can't delegate certain things to the LPN/LVN.

TOTALLY this ^^^. As an adjunct charged with Getting Students Ready for NCLEX while simultaneously Getting Students Career-Ready this is a tough balance! NCLEX demands hard and fast answers on a national level while our practice is determined on a state level. The WV LPN statute linked above even states

Many nurses would like a yes” or no” answer to questions about the

delegation of nursing practice, however, in most cases it is not that simple.

In reality, the answer to most questions is it depends”. It depends upon the

complexity of the task to be delegated. It depends upon the care needs of

the client, as assessed by the registered professional nurse. It depends

upon the educational preparation, skills, and ability of the licensed practical

nurse or unlicensed person to whom the task is to be delegated/assigned.

And, it depends upon the availability and accessibility of essential resources

including supervision, while the task is being performed.

Nursing judgment is the essential element in every delegation or assignment decision.”

[like_a_nurse89]

Instead of us all arguing over who can and can't do.. and who has more importance, how about we say these two titles are both important and are both needed in the medical field.

As for buckybadgerRn,

That was uncalled for attempting to insult someone as you did only proves you have a very low character. Shame on you.