I wish RN schools would quit teaching the RN students LPN's can't do anything!

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I am getting so frustrated with some RN students in these NCLEX review groups. They keep saying that LPN's can't do any assessments, they can't do any patient teaching, or evaluations, that it is illegal. I think it is important that RN understand the real scope of practice of the LPN. To hear them talk LPN's are no different than medication aids. It makes me sad that they are taught to think so little of our education and training.

Specializes in Geriatrics, Dialysis.
Oh I don't like that all!
...

Sorry, quoted the wrong post, made my response a little confusing I'm sure! Meant to quote BuckyBadger "In my state, if you are an lpn, you cannot say "I'm a nurse". You MUST say "I'm an lpn". Only an rn can call themselves a nurse with no title/letters."

You must be in Wisconsin too! I thought that was nuts when I ran across that language in the Nurse Practice Act.

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But the word "nurse" is explicitly part of the title LPN....

I would like to see anyone in any of these states actually enforce this apparent ban against LPNs calling themselves nurses. I'm willing to bet it has never happened.

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Specializes in Geriatrics, Dialysis.
But the word "nurse" is explicitly part of the title LPN....

I would like to see anyone in any of these states actually enforce this apparent ban against LPNs calling themselves nurses. I'm willing to bet it has never happened.

Gotta say I've never worked with or even met an LPN that didn't call herself/himself a nurse, and rightfully so. I wonder who's panties were in a wad when that language was drafted?

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I could be wrong, but I really doubt most RNs were LPNs. "Many" maybe, but not most.

I would like to see some stats on that,but i am unable to find any.

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Specializes in Geriatrics, Dialysis.
I would like to see some stats on that,but i am unable to find any.

Good question. I wonder how many RN's did the LPN to RN track? Nothing formal for stats, but I know all our regular nurses pretty well. There are 18 total, so a pretty small sample size. Out of the 18 there are 2 that are LPN's and only one that went from LPN to RN. The rest went straight through to RN. Now that I think about it that does kind of surprise me as one of our local schools allows students to sit the LPN NCLEX after the first year of the RN program. I know at least 2 of the RN's I work with graduated from that program. Also interesting though not related, only one of the RN's is currently in school pursuing a BSN, the rest of us RN's are ADN nurses.

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I would like to see some stats on that,but i am unable to find any.

Nor can I.

But I did find this neat table that breaks down the number of various nursing programs, state by state: http://www.nln.org/researchgrants/slides/pdf/AS1011_T02.pdf

PN/VN programs make up less than a quarter of the total. True, that doesn't prove anything, but I would imagine if most RNs started as LPNs, the disparity wouldn't be so great.

Some interesting stats there, too. I'm surprised there are still 63 diploma programs in the country! And California seems to have a disproportionately large ratio of VN programs to RN, compared to other states. LVNs must be high in demand there.

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To the OP I would like to say I just recently passed the nclex. I know LPNs can do way more because several of my friends in nursing school were LPNs first. Otherwise I would be clueless. Try not to be frustrated at people reviewing because they are reviewing what the NCLEX wants them to answer. After they get their license they will learn but to pass we have to go by the book. When we get delegation questions we have to answer what we are taught. What good would it be for teachers to constantly have to put a disclaimer at the end of each sentence saying it's different in the "real" world? They teach us the information to pass the NCLEX.

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Specializes in HH, Peds, Rehab, Clinical.

Some tidbits pulled from my states BON website:

(8)

Nursing diagnosis” means a judgment made by an R.N.

following a nursing assessment of a patient's actual or potential

health needs for the purpose of establishing a nursing care plan.

Under the LPN section:

1. Assist with the collection of data;

2. Assist with the development and revision of a nursing care

plan;

3. Reinforce the teaching provided by an R.N., physician,

podiatrist, dentist or optometrist and provide basic health care

instruction

Sorry about the change in font midway through!

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Specializes in HH, Peds, Rehab, Clinical.

Yikes that turned out badly!! Sorry guys!

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Specializes in Family Practice, Mental Health.
Actually, all of the actions of the LPN are NOT the responsibility of the RN. Not in Virginia or anywhere else. The reality is that the LPN also has a license and is responsible for her/his own scope of practice. What is outside of that scope is the responsibility of the RN. This could be very little or it could be quite a bit depending on the state and facility where that LPN works as LPN scope can vary. I practice in a state where LPNs could do their owns shift assessment, but could not do the admission assessment. Therefore, if an LPN helped with an admit, the RN had to assess the patient and document that assessment. They could not delegate it to the LPN.

I have found that many nursing instructors are ignorant about LPN practice and their role, and that is why we have mistaken ideas such as "The RN is responsible for everything the LPN does". This is spoken from an LPN who completed 3.5 years of a 4 year BSN program. I certainly learned a lot in my BSN program. However, there is quite a bit of difference between academic/theoretical nursing (world of the NCLEX) and the reality of bedside nursing. I went into semi retirement instead of finishing the program. I do not subscribe to the camp of former LPNs who say "Now that I'm an RN I can see a huge difference between the roles." I instead feel that although I appreciated the new things that I learned, most of what I knew about nursing came from my experience, not from the classroom. It made me more knowledgeable about nursing beyond the bedside, but didn't change the way I did bedside nursing.

It is very important to understand the scope of the LPN in the state and facility, both for the RN and the LPN. It is also important to realize that the NCLEX isn't reality, it is simply a hoop you jump through before you can start practicing actual nursing.

Actually, the RN is Accountable" for evaluating what the LPN/LVN does, insofar as (per Title 22) the overall accountability for assessment, planning and evaluating of patient care remains with the RN because that is the RN's scope of practice. The LPN/LVN is Responsible” and Accountable” for everything the LPN/LVN does.

I was an LPN for five years in the Midwest, and an LVN for 10 years on the West Coast before bridging to RN.

I have yet to find a state board that does not define the LPN/LVN scope of practice as able to practice without being under the direction of an RN or NP, PA, MD, Etc..

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Specializes in Adult ICU/PICU/NICU.
Actually, the RN is Accountable" for evaluating what the LPN/LVN does, insofar as (per Title 22) the overall accountability for assessment, planning and evaluating of patient care remains with the RN because that is the RN's scope of practice. The LPN/LVN is Responsible” and Accountable” for everything the LPN/LVN does.

I was an LPN for five years in the Midwest, and an LVN for 10 years on the West Coast before bridging to RN.

I have yet to find a state board that does not define the LPN/LVN scope of practice as able to practice without being under the direction of an RN or NP, PA, MD, Etc..

Working under the direction of the RN does not mean that the RN is responsible for everything that the LPN does. This implies that if an LPN screws up within her scope of practice, it's the RNs license that is in jeopardy. This is simply not the case.

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Specializes in Family Practice, Mental Health.
Working under the direction of the RN does not mean that the RN is responsible for everything that the LPN does. This implies that if an LPN screws up within her scope of practice, it's the RNs license that is in jeopardy. This is simply not the case.

I did not say that the RN is responsible for everything that the LPN does. Please refer back to my post -The RN scope of practice mandates that the RN retain accountability for evaluating the outcome of the patient's care - - -No matter who it is delegated to.

I spent fifteen full time years working as an LPN/LVN. I can understand your viewpoint, however, there is no getting around the fact that the boards of nursing have decided that even though an LPN can perform tasks as well as anyone else, it is because the tasks are under the direction of an RN or NP, etc.

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