I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

[Valerie Salva]

And I am just blown away. I am incredulous.

I have felt for a while that we should have universal health care here in the US, but I didn't know things were this bad. We really should be ashamed that GTMO Bay prisoners get free (and very good quality, from the looks of it) health care and 9/11 rescue workers are suffering from 9/11 related health conditions and have no coverage.

And hospitals removing their names from the pt bracelets of ill, unisured pts, and having cabs drop them on Skid Row?

And insurance company physicians admitting that they know they caused the death of pts by denying claims in order to save the ins company money?

What is the matter with us that our health care system is ranked #37 among industrialized nations?

To me, this is not about politics, not about personal responsibility, it's not about cost- it's just about what is right and what is wrong.

I know the Canadian and other universal health care systems have their problems, but they are not run on a foundation of greed and denial of care as ours is.

I am very fortunate that I have good health insurance, but this could change at any time. I am willing to pay more taxes so that all US citizens can get free or low-cost health care that is not connected with a job, and can move with the citizen and cover them wherever they are and whatever their circumstances are.

Are you?

What do you think?

[iteachob, MSN, RN]

Can we at least go for a flat rate tax across the board that everyone has to pay? Please Please Please

Flat tax! I definitely applaud that!

[iteachob, MSN, RN]

I am all in favor of Universal Healthcare but I am not willing to pay more in taxes than I already pay.

Problem! You can't have one without the other.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

Flat tax! I definitely applaud that!

We can dream can't we. LOL I would love a flat 10, even 15% across the board, everyone has to pay, no deductions, no write offs, everyone just bucks up and pays their part.

[d!gger]

People in the USA rarely complain about their socialized police force, or socialized fire department, or socialized roads, or socialized garbage collection, or socialized water company, or socialized millitary, or...

dig

who's thanking gawd we didn't privatize social security a few years back.

[cariad]

why do you think that you have to pay more taxes, in the uk the tax rate is 23%, and a social security payment, much like your medicare payment that comes out of our wages, but then on top of that you pay health care benefits out of your wages, so if these payments honestly went into a health system and not into the health insurance companies profits then you would have a working health system for everyone, if you have a lot of money like your politicians then bills dont matter, if you have no money, then they done matter if you are old then its paid for, but if you are one of the many working people who pay health insurance, then try getting sick and see how many bills you get, even with good coverage, the system that is in america only works for the working person if you dont get sick and have to take time off work, try calling socialised medicine something else, oh i forgot you already do its called insurance companies who control it all.

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

Problem! You can't have one without the other.

Take the $525 - the sum of my payment for my private insurance and my employer's contribution to the same each pay period - multiply it by 26 (pay periods in a year). That adds up to $13,650 per year that goes to cover private health insurance for my family of 3. It astounds me that there are people who seriously think this ok.

That almost-14k...heck, even half that, or even a third, multiplied by every working American, would likely suffice to cover everybody's medical bills in the nation. So much for higher taxes...just quit paying the dang private insurers whose job it is to make a profit.

[VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN]

And the idea of implementing a UHC program because a few are underinsured will only lead to making us all underinsured.

A FEW "underinsured"?? What of the 47 million Americans without any insurance at all?

Again: Health insurance is NOT health care---that's where we "underinsured" come in, because even though we pay hundreds of dollars per month in premiums, there are bean-counters who have never been to medical or nursing school making life-or-death decisions...........and denying us procedures, drugs, medical equipment, and just about everything they CAN deny us.

I am completely serious about this: if we do not yank this evil weed out of our healthcare "system" by its roots and destroy it, no one but the independently wealthy will be able to access medical services in another 20 years. We nurses will be catering to a VIP population while we ourselves do without health care. Is that what the free-marketers want?

Me, I'd rather put that $500 bucks into a system that will at least cover part of my medications (one of which is $150 for a 30-day supply, which I'm ALSO paying for out-of-pocket). I don't care if the rich want to buy extra health care---I think they should, if they want it, and it should be made available to them. But EVERY citizen should be able to access BASIC health services, as we do fire and police protection, schools, clean water, and other "government" services that we enjoy because we are citizens and we pay taxes to support them.

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

Moved into Social/Health Care Coverage Activism forum. Thanks. :)

[Valerie Salva, BSN, RN]

People in the USA rarely complain about their socialized police force, or socialized fire department, or socialized roads, or socialized garbage collection, or socialized water company, or socialized millitary, or...

dig

who's thanking gawd we didn't privatize social security a few years back.

AMEN AMEN!

I am horrified to think where social security would be now if we had privatized it, and invested the $$ in the stock mkt as Bush was pushing for!

And I think our "socialized" police, military, fire depts, etc. do a damn fine job!

[leadesign]

Not to mention the fine job done by the US postal service!

[r0b0tafflicti0n]

As someone who has always lived in Canada, I think that some people don't realize some of the consequences of having a socialized healthcare system.

I am known to simultaneously praise and hate our system at the same time.

Some big problems off the top of my head.

1. The doctor shortage....We probably have the same proportion of people without GPs as you guys have without insurance. If there are no doctors in your area...you are out of luck so...

ETA: The doctor shortage is related to the non-competitive pay that socialized systems pay...

2. The ER is used and abused. There is no other choice. (See above)

3. Shortage of doctors and funding creates... wait lists. Even Canadians don't realize how dismal it is when it takes months to see a specialist, a year to have an MRI, months to start radiation of a diagnosed cancer... until they experience it themselves, and there is no exaggeration there (anyone can google wait list times in Canada for any of the above). We don't have a two tier system, so your option is to wait, or leave the country ($).

This is no where near an inclusive list.

Michael Moore is biased and shows one side of the story. Our system is just as weak and broken, it's just a different type of weak and broken. The grass is always greener...

I don't know if you realize this, but there is huge shortage of doctors (particularly primary care doctors, more particularly in inner city and rural areas) in the US as well. It's not unique to socialized medicine! It takes months to see a specialist here, and I live in a city with very good access to healthcare (you know, for people who can afford healthcare at all).

[LaughingRN]

I don't know if you realize this, but there is huge shortage of doctors (particularly primary care doctors, more particularly in inner city and rural areas) in the US as well. It's not unique to socialized medicine! It takes months to see a specialist here, and I live in a city with very good access to healthcare (you know, for people who can afford healthcare at all).

Thanks for pointing this out. I think I was just trying to say that socialized health care is far from perfect. Some people don't understand that, especially after watching the Michael Moore movie. Until a system is developed that fixes all the problems with socializing care, it really isn't a viable solution for anyone. The Canadian health system is broke and our taxes are very high. I hear comments in the media and news where some people think that free health care is the only way to go...

Essentially, it is too little spread too thin, everyone gets basic care but God forbid you need surgery or you have a mass in your abdomen, etc. You will wait... and sometimes too long. (I feel you get excellent top rate care here though... when you finally get it)

People who work hard, are not even given an option to pay extra to receive care quicker...It is taking equality to the outer maximum which begs the question, is it fair to make people suffer and die on wait lists simply to uphold the ideal of fair health for everyone? It's a fine line to walk to allow people who can afford it, pay for quicker service, because then socialized "health for everyone falls" apart.

It's hard.

I still love the ideal behind our system and honestly hope one day we can find the answers to make it work right.