I have felt for a while that we should have universal health care here in the US, but I didn't know things were this bad. We really should be ashamed that GTMO Bay prisoners get free (and very good quality, from the looks of it) health care and 9/11 rescue workers are suffering from 9/11 related health conditions and have no coverage.
And hospitals removing their names from the pt bracelets of ill, unisured pts, and having cabs drop them on Skid Row?
And insurance company physicians admitting that they know they caused the death of pts by denying claims in order to save the ins company money?
What is the matter with us that our health care system is ranked #37 among industrialized nations?
To me, this is not about politics, not about personal responsibility, it's not about cost- it's just about what is right and what is wrong.
I know the Canadian and other universal health care systems have their problems, but they are not run on a foundation of greed and denial of care as ours is.
I am very fortunate that I have good health insurance, but this could change at any time. I am willing to pay more taxes so that all US citizens can get free or low-cost health care that is not connected with a job, and can move with the citizen and cover them wherever they are and whatever their circumstances are.
You see, it's this kind of conjecture and generalization that misrepresents people's positions.
It's not fair or accurate to imply that people who oppose a gov't run UHC system have never had their lives turned "upside down." Everyone has their sad story to tell; no one has cornered the market on misery.
It's also not fair to imply that they don't want want their own money to be used to help others get coverage. The reality is that MOST of us would gladly give, but we are not willing to let the gov't be the steward or broker of this task given their dismal performance in almost every other program they try to run with our money.
When we give this task to the gov't, we simply pass the 'choice' of who lives or dies to our politicians. Is it really the minority who think this is a terrible idea?
I am also willing to give of my things (which are few because I am about as materialistic as a Hutterite), but I don't understand why folks don't realize that we can be individually charitable to the benefit of all without letting the team with the absolutely worst record of financial and social management in history (our gov't), deciding who pays and who receives.
i just honestly cannot comprehend your position.
i don't know how you can watch this movie and say "oh it's a lie".
and i don't know how you can say you want to pick your charity, because the sad part of it is that the people who are eligible to receive it are the ones who already do. it's the people who falll thru the cracks that need help with universal care.
being individually charitable doesn't make sense to me.
i don't truly believe that politicians would be the deciding factor of our health care if it's "socialized". can you honestly tell me that you think it's ok for someone who is a "medical underwriter" or a RN/LPN on the other side of the phone to decide what is and is not medically necessary? isn't that up to the physician and their patient?
Specializes in Flight Nurse, Pedi CICU, IR, Adult CTICU.
i just honestly cannot comprehend your position.
i don't know how you can watch this movie and say "oh it's a lie".
I can say that because Moore has made assertions which have been disproven, because Moore has admitted poor pursuit of due diligence, and because he has been shown to not be a very honest person.
and i don't know how you can say you want to pick your charity, because the sad part of it is that the people who are eligible to receive it are the ones who already do. it's the people who falll thru the cracks that need help with universal care.
Not following you, but politicians put their pants on just like me. I don't know how they are more qualified to say how my money should be used in regards to charity than I do. I could run for state house or senate in my own district, but that doesn't make me suddenly enlightened on how I should be directing other people to redistribute their hard-earned money.
being individually charitable doesn't make sense to me.
:eek::eek:
i don't truly believe that politicians would be the deciding factor of our health care if it's "socialized". can you honestly tell me that you think it's ok for someone who is a "medical underwriter" or a RN/LPN on the other side of the phone to decide what is and is not medically necessary? isn't that up to the physician and their patient?
help me understand.
In an UH system, it is still the purse-holder that decides, not the physician. In a UHC system, people are still denied care, and when the care is denied and people happen to take legal action, they don't sue the physician, they sue the people with the money.
I think what Allison means by "individual charity doesn't make sense to me" is not that she finds individual charity is an abomination and has no place. Of course it has a place, a big place, in our society. I just took it to mean that individual charity alone is not going to solve the huge mess this country's healthcare system has created....and that the concept of charity being the only solution is one that doesn't make sense.
That's how I read it. Correct me if I'm wrong, Allie.
I can say that because Moore has made assertions which have been disproven, because Moore has admitted poor pursuit of due diligence, and because he has been shown to not be a very honest person.
Not following you, but politicians put their pants on just like me. I don't know how they are more qualified to say how my money should be used in regards to charity than I do. I could run for state house or senate in my own district, but that doesn't make me suddenly enlightened on how I should be directing other people to redistribute their hard-earned money.
:eek::eek:
In an UH system, it is still the purse-holder that decides, not the physician. In a UHC system, people are still denied care, and when the care is denied and people happen to take legal action, they don't sue the physician, they sue the people with the money.
ok, alot of people on this thread have verbalized they do not care for michael moore. HOWEVER, they still believe that there is a problem with the health care system in this country.
my comment about falling through the cracks... let me explain. medicaid has a certain dollar amount that you cannot exceed making when applying for coverage. so, let's say people making $20,000 or less a year qualify. then you have people who are making $40,000 a year that do not qualify, but either do not have coverage, do not have enough coverage, or have pre-exisitings, they make too much for help but too little to pay extreme amounts of medical bills... thereby falling through the cracks.
so in summary, you can "pick your charity" all you want... but that still doesn't help those people in the middle. i pay tax dollars just like you do.
I think what Allison means by "individual charity doesn't make sense to me" is not that she finds individual charity is an abomination and has no place. Of course it has a place, a big place, in our society. I just took it to mean that individual charity alone is not going to solve the huge mess this country's healthcare system has created....and that the concept of charity being the only solution is one that doesn't make sense.
That's how I read it. Correct me if I'm wrong, Allie.
I think that there has been a lot of very good points brought up from both sides of the discussion.
I love the idea of our health system, but like I have said it is broken. I have tried to mention how it is broken, but I'm not sure if people really listen because it might still sound better than a private system. (Especially to people who have gotten the short end of the stick)
People don't have inclusive health care coverage in Canada.
Some things that are never included...
Anything that is dental, dental surgeries ect.
Anything that has to do with your eyes
Prescriptions for anything
Break your arm and want a cast...crutches for a foot
Ambulance
Physicals required by employment and school that require forms
Immunizations that don't fall under necessary
Need a wart or something similar removed...cosmetic you pay
Need coverage out of country, you might want to pay for insurance.
I know that these could be seen as little things, but some can be very large bills. Especially the first three.
UHC is not free. Check out our taxes, our income tax right down to our sale tax. Ever try to buy a car with 15% sales tax? makes a difference.
I want our system to work. I don't want a private system. Even more, I want our neighbors to the south to make a system that actually works so that we can then see that it is possible to change ours to make it work too.
I think that you guys can do it. I just hope that if a UHC is implemented, the same mistakes aren't made. People do die on wait lists here, and it is horribly sad since there is not alternative available. Target times are not even being close to being met. As each year goes by, our taxes seem to increase and the services provided decrease.
I think that there has been a lot of very good points brought up from both sides of the discussion.
I love the idea of our health system, but like I have said it is broken. I have tried to mention how it is broken, but I'm not sure if people really listen because it might still sound better than a private system. (Especially to people who have gotten the short end of the stick)
People don't have inclusive health care coverage in Canada.Some things that are never included:
Anything that is dental, dental surgeries ect.
Anything that has to do with your eyes
Prescriptions for anything
Break your arm and want a cast...crutches for a foot
Ambulance
Physicals required by employment and school that require forms
Immunizations that don't fall under necessary
Need a wart or something similar removed...cosmetic you pay
Need coverage out of country, you might want to pay for insurance.
But that doesn't mean these deficits have to be part of a universal health care program. In Australia most dental isn't covered, though emergency stuff (that requires hospitalisation in the Dental Hospital is), but everyon'es entitled to bi-annual eye exams (visual acuity, eye test, dilation etc) for free, prescriptions are heavily subsidised, and while ambulance costs are enormous annual membership costs $60 for an individual, $120 for families (less if you pay for three or five years in advance). Health care coverage doesn't extend to other countries, and I firmly believe that if you can't afford travel insurance you can't afford to travel.
I don't think our system is perfect, and I think it's unreasonable to expect that the government cover everything (I'm not saying that's what LaughingStudent proposes, BTW). But I do think that allowing great swathes of people to fall through the gaps and/or lose their homes to pay for essential medical care is morally wrong, and that just doesn't happen to residents here, period.
Specializes in Flight Nurse, Pedi CICU, IR, Adult CTICU.
But that doesn't mean these deficits have to be part of a universal health care program. In Australia most dental isn't covered, though emergency stuff (that requires hospitalisation in the Dental Hospital is), but everyon'es entitled to bi-annual eye exams (visual acuity, eye test, dilation etc) for free, prescriptions are heavily subsidised, and while ambulance costs are enormous annual membership costs $60 for an individual, $120 for families (less if you pay for three or five years in advance). Health care coverage doesn't extend to other countries, and I firmly believe that if you can't afford travel insurance you can't afford to travel.
I don't think our system is perfect, and I think it's unreasonable to expect that the government cover everything (I'm not saying that's what LaughingStudent proposes, BTW). But I do think that allowing great swathes of people to fall through the gaps and/or lose their homes to pay for essential medical care is morally wrong, and that just doesn't happen to residents here, period.
And Australia is working to improve it as well.
They are incentivizing people to purchase private health insurance via the Lifetime Health Cover, a Medicare Levey Surcharge, and a private health insurance rebate.
you're right, honnête et sérieux, but my concern is that the emphasis on private health insurance will result in the loss of medicare as a viable, universal health care provider. my greatest concern is that it will lead to us adopting an american-style user-pays service that's fine for those who can afford insurance and who have no pre-existing or significant and long-term conditions but that leaves anyone else to fend for themselves.
you see, it's this kind of conjecture and generalization that misrepresents people's positions.
it's not fair or accurate to imply that people who oppose a gov't run uhc system have never had their lives turned "upside down." everyone has their sad story to tell; no one has cornered the market on misery.
it's also not fair to imply that they don't want want their own money to be used to help others get coverage. the reality is that most of us would gladly give, but we are not willing to let the gov't be the steward or broker of this task given their dismal performance in almost every other program they try to run with our money.
when we give this task to the gov't, we simply pass the 'choice' of who lives or dies to our politicians. is it really the minority who think this is a terrible idea?
i am also willing to give of my things (which are few because i am about as materialistic as a hutterite), but i don't understand why folks don't realize that we can be individually charitable to the benefit of all without letting the team with the absolutely worst record of financial and social management in history (our gov't), deciding who pays and who receives.
your whole post is so on the money but especially the highlighted part. my husband and i have no health insurance right now. he is a private contractor, he has metabolic syndrome and i have seizure disorder. hard to find insurance although we did have cobra for awhile - at 2500 per month.
and we are against the government having much more to do with healthcare.
:eek:
but especially the highlighted part. my husband and i have no health insurance right now. he is a private contractor, he has metabolic syndrome and i have seizure disorder. hard to find insurance although we did have cobra for awhile - at 2500 per month.
flightnurse2b, LPN
1 Article; 1,496 Posts
i just honestly cannot comprehend your position.
i don't know how you can watch this movie and say "oh it's a lie".
and i don't know how you can say you want to pick your charity, because the sad part of it is that the people who are eligible to receive it are the ones who already do. it's the people who falll thru the cracks that need help with universal care.
being individually charitable doesn't make sense to me.
i don't truly believe that politicians would be the deciding factor of our health care if it's "socialized". can you honestly tell me that you think it's ok for someone who is a "medical underwriter" or a RN/LPN on the other side of the phone to decide what is and is not medically necessary? isn't that up to the physician and their patient?
help me understand.