I had some trouble with a CNA...should I talk to the manager?

[bth44]

At the hospital I work at, everyone on the nursing staff is on probation for the first 90 days of employment. Then, there are peer evaluations done by the RNs. If the employee shows that they work hard and do well, then they'll be considered permanent employees after 90 days. If they perform poorly, they'll be given another 45 days of probation to "shape up or ship out". Then it's either permanent employment or dismissal.

I work with a CNA, hired for a different ward, but who floats over to ours occasionally, who recieved a lackluster evaluation after her first 90 days of employment. She's currently going through her 45 days. I became aware of all this when a nurse from this CNA's home ward asked me how she was doing over my ward, I gave her a briefing on her performance. She thanked me, saying that the nurses have to finish up the peer evaluations on her and any input is helpful.

Not too long ago, when the CNA worked with us, I brought some photos of a party that the people on our unit had a month or so ago. The CNA came up behind me to look at the pictures and said, "I'd like to look, because I didn't go to the party." At that point, I said, sarcastically, "Oh, well, that's because you weren't invited." Then I started chuckling a little bit, turned away from her, back to look at the pictures and said, "Oh, I'm just kidding, everyone in the hospital was welcome to-OW! Did you just punch me?!" After I turned back to look at the pictures again, she had decided to hit me on my back with her fist, right over my scapula. I said, "Why did you do that? Please don't hit me. That really, really hurt. It's always been a little sore since hurting it playing sports in high school" At that point she said, "Oh, I didn't know you had a bad shoulder" and apologized.

Now, yes, I admit, I probably shouldn't have been sarcastic. But, I know that right before she hit me, I was telling her that I was joking around and that she was welcome to go. I believe that she knew I was kidding around with her, and she just thought it would be funny to hit me for some reason. But isn't making jokes to someone, like I did, a little less offensive than hitting someone, like she did to me? It may just be the way I think, but I was raised to understand that there is no reason and no good excuse to hit anyone, and that there's certainly no reason to just sit there and take it. Having this mindset about people hitting others makes me feel like it's necessary for me to go to my manager, and tell her about the incident.

But, I don't know if I should. I understand she's had her probabtion extended for not performing well, so going to the manager with this could play a big part in her being fired. Part of me thinks that I'm partly at fault, because of my sarcasm right before her hitting me. The other part stands by the thought that she really had no right to hit me, and that the way she reacted was completely out of line. I do know that if I was the manager, I'd want to hear about someone who's working on my unit who reacts in such a way. I guess what I'm requesting from all of you who read through this long post is if I should just go to the manager and tell her what happened or, just leave it be since the CNA is aware that I won't tolerate being hit anymore, and not say anything at all.

Now, I'm just flabbergasted because I never thought, being a nurse working in a hospital with other health-care professionals, that I'd feel the need to write a post to request opinions and advice about a co-worker smacking me. The entire situation makes me feel like I'm in middle school all over again.

[onehusbandsevenkids]

Hardly.

On a professional note, what's to say she'd have appropriate self control when a patient mouths off to her.

She should have been trying especially hard to get along, since she already knew she had 45 days to shape up.

The only way this makes sense is she is trying to get fired so she gets unemployment. Someone who wants to keep her job and do a good job doesn't go around hitting people because she didn't go to a party on a unit she wasn't even assigned to.

Even? You're kidding, right?

YOU'RE kidding, right? My gosh...you must never have been the target of cruelty and/or bullying.

It wasn't because she didn't go to a party, it was because of the OP's original nasty and hurtful and embarassing remark.

Your unemployment theory is interesting though.....sheesh....

NOT that I condone people hitting people, but come on, they were both wrong here.

On a professional note...who's to say the OP won't pratice appropriate self-control and won't mouth off to a patient under the guise of sarcasm?

They should both be written up if that's to happen, not one or the other.

[gr8rnpjt, RN]

I am surprised at how many posters are equating verbal assaults with physical assaults. Although I know sarcastic nurses like that and I absolutely hated working with people like this, I would never think of crossing the line between verbal assaults and physical assaults.

However, if the OP was known for her verbal assaults and if she had made those type of sarcastic comments to me I would have taken great satisfaction witnessing the punch.

But I do agree with the posters who think the CNA should be reported. Its not like she is losing a big money job or can't get another CNA job and maybe if she lost her job then she would learn not to cross that line again.

:rotfl:

[RazorbackRN, BSN, RN]

I am surprised at how many posters are equating verbal assaults with physical assaults. Although I know sarcastic nurses like that and I absolutely hated working with people like this, I would never think of crossing the line between verbal assaults and physical assaults.

However, if the OP was known for her verbal assaults and if she had made those type of sarcastic comments to me I would have taken great satisfaction witnessing the punch.

But I do agree with the posters who think the CNA should be reported. Its not like she is losing a big money job or can't get another CNA job and maybe if she lost her job then she would learn not to cross that line again.

:rotfl:

This may not be a big money job, but it may be the job that feeds her family...how dare make that kind of judgement.

I agree that mental assault is as bad a physical, just as mental health as important as physical.

I don't think the unemployment theory is relevant here, as the person is still on a probationary period, which in most states would eliminate that possibility.

As far as others saying, 'well, what if this CNA decided to take it out on a pt. if they said something she didn't like', we could say the same about the OP. She could just as easily decide to say something catty and hurtful to a pt. if this kind of reasoning applies.

[Daytonite, BSN, RN]

Dear Heart, this CNA committed a battery upon you. First off, that is a crime and you could have reported it to the police. Secondly, I'm willing to bet that it's an automatic termination at your place of employment. Somewhere in the employee manual you received during orientation there is a list of behaviors that result in discipline or termination. Physically attacking or fighting with other employees on hospital property should be listed there. The hospital has a duty to protect it's employees under it's roof. This person puts the hospital in jeopardy of a lawsuit for damages to another person every day she stays. It doesn't matter what you said or how you said something to her. Her rights ended at the point her hand touched your body. If this person didn't hesitate doing what she did to you (and in a secretive way, it sounds like) what makes you think she wouldn't do it, or hasn't already done it to a helpless patient? Get this reported so this person can be sent on her way out the door. The hospital may also be required to report this to the state agency that handles the certification of nursing assistants. She's a danger and needs to be put out of the nursing profession. Please do not be worried about yourself getting punished or disciplined over this as you did nothing wrong.

[Cute_CNA, CNA]

If the punch caused you physical pain (and you think that it would have caused someone who DIDN'T have a bad shoulder pain as well), then yes, report her.

Think about it, if she's willing to do that to a coworker, what might she do to a patient? Some patients can be really nasty, but none of them should be hit! Although it can be tempting sometimes :chuckle just kidding. She may be under some stress. But even under the greatest stress, hitting anyone in the workplace is not acceptable.

I think this woman is too impulsive to be in the health care field. She doesn't sound like she has the coping skills to deal with everyday irritations.

I'm not sure if I would press charges myself, but if you feel the need to, that's up to you.

Did anyone else witness this? (I only read your first post in this thread, I gotta run). Did she leave a bruise?

Edit: I do think that was a mean thing for you to say to her, even in jest. I would not have been too pleased hearing that from you, to put it mildly. But she should have chosen a different way to respond.

[babynurselsa, RN]

Neither of your responses were appropriate.

You were out of line in your response. If this was someone that you knew extremely well and knew you as well maybe then.

This does not excuse her hitting you. She may have been taking a playful jab in response to a harsh remark tyring to play off the statement that you just made and misjudged her force. You surely embarrassed her with your statement.

Not being there or seeing it, I can't say for sure.

Verbal assaults even when you say you are joking are no more appropriate than physical assault.

[Mulan]

She shouldn't have hit you.

I agree with the other posts though as well, you shouldn't be making sarcastic and mean remarks to anyone.

[Goldenhare]

I agree with awannabeanrn! Let's get this story straight. CNA on extended probation. She knows her job is on the line! She already knows that everyone on her on home ward knows she is not performing to standard. She rotates to another ward (not apparently cutting the mustard where she is but good enough to go to another ward). While helping at that ward, the RN's from her home ward are asking how she is doing. (Personally it horrifies me that part of my job keeping evaluation might be based on second hand information!) I'm guessing she is trying to fit in somewhere. I think the CNA originally tried to explain her interest in the pictures because she didn't feel entitled to see them. I don't think she feels a part of her home ward or the ward she was helping out. So she tries to explain why she would like to see the picture--and POW--her worst fears are confirmed. She is not wanted on the team, and she is not liked. I'm willing to bet that she is not quick with words, had siblings that picked on her, and grew up in a family that equalized sarcasm with a quick direct punch. I don't think it has anything to do with patient care.

NOW I am not saying that she should have hit anyone. It is wrong under any circumstances!! But the comment was out of line. So the CNA was told her behavior was not acceptable. She apologized. It is even. You could tell her that if it happens again, you will have no choice but to report her, but for now -yeah- sounds even to me!

[NebbyLPN]

i cannot believe the "battered syndrome" mentality i have just read by many of the people answering this post. :angryfire would you all stand there and take a punch from your husband, wife, boyfriend, or girlfriend and tolerate it by rationalizing that you deserved it? what the ****! no one ever deserves to be physically hit by another person. by all the responses i read it sounds like you would condone someone "going postal" at a workplace. what's wrong with you all? whatever happened to "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me"? there was a crime committed here!

to bth44, the original poster--> you need to report this to this cnas manager today. also, give her the name(s) of the other people who saw this cna hit you so she has corroborating evidence. your charge nurse is not a manager so don't take her non-advice to heart--she sounds like a twit. as employees we are all entitled to a safe working environment.

[Mulan]

Whatever happened to "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me"?

Okay, this is a little off topic and not pertinent to the original scenario here, but try telling that (the above quote) to someone that experienced a childhood of verbal, emotional and psycological abuse.

[nursemike, ASN, RN]

i cannot believe the "battered syndrome" mentality i have just read by many of the people answering this post. :angryfire would you all stand there and take a punch from your husband, wife, boyfriend, or girlfriend and tolerate it by rationalizing that you deserved it? what the ****! no one ever deserves to be physically hit by another person. by all the responses i read it sounds like you would condone someone "going postal" at a workplace. what's wrong with you all? whatever happened to "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me"? there was a crime committed here!

to bth44, the original poster--> you need to report this to this cnas manager today. also, give her the name(s) of the other people who saw this cna hit you so she has corroborating evidence. your charge nurse is not a manager so don't take her non-advice to heart--she sounds like a twit. as employees we are all entitled to a safe working environment.

i am not a battery victim. i don't commit acts of violence or condone acts of violence. i do believe there are words one can speak which can provoke violence. there are things i don't say because i would expect to get hit if i said them, and if i did say them i would apologize to my assailant. a big part of civilization, as i see it, is an agreement not to behave in certain ways, and if you break that agreement, you shouldn't be surprised when your victim "takes it to the next level."

it sounds from the op that the cna didn't intend to do harm. what was possibly intended to be semi-playfully may have been more painful than intended. similarly, the op's "joke" was more painful than intended. both showed poor judgement, but neither was seriously harmed.

my advice to the op would be to apologize for your comment and explain that it was meant to be good-natured teasing. i would also make it clear that physical assault was unacceptable, but i would not go to management. i would make sure the cna understands that patients will occassionally commit verbal and even physical abuse, and that a health care worker must never retaliate, regardless of the provocation, and that any future hitting of co-workers or patients will be reported at once.

[onehusbandsevenkids]

i cannot believe the "battered syndrome" mentality i have just read by many of the people answering this post. :angryfire would you all stand there and take a punch from your husband, wife, boyfriend, or girlfriend and tolerate it by rationalizing that you deserved it? what the ****! no one ever deserves to be physically hit by another person. by all the responses i read it sounds like you would condone someone "going postal" at a workplace. what's wrong with you all? whatever happened to "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me"? there was a crime committed here!

to bth44, the original poster--> you need to report this to this cnas manager today. also, give her the name(s) of the other people who saw this cna hit you so she has corroborating evidence. your charge nurse is not a manager so don't take her non-advice to heart--she sounds like a twit. as employees we are all entitled to a safe working environment.

i think this situation is being overly dramatized here.

please, this was more like a playful jab. i know families where behavior like this is the norm, teasing and sarcasm followed by a jab by the offended. it sure doen't sound like it was some forceful punch meant to injure...

she was not "going postal," give me a break. i don't think was workplace violence where a "crime" was commited. matter of fact, i'm pretty sure the police would be snickering at this reported "crime." (personally know police)

yes, all are entitled to a safe working environment....physically and emotionally.