I did something stupid... no, embarrassing and stupid

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Okay, first I want to make it clear that this is not a thread about religion. Please, let's not discuss our personal views of religion, that isn't my topic.

Here is my problem. I have two patients, D and J. D and J (I'm serious here folks) share the same biological mother and they share the same husband. D is preggers with her 17th child and J is preggers with her 14th child. There are several other wives to this gentleman but they aren't my patients.

Today I was talking to the MD office getting some orders (home infusion co,) and although the topic was J I mentioned something I needed for D as well. The woman on the phone acted confused and I was trying to explain their relationship tactfully. I started to say that D was going to borrow something from her ... frie... sist... umm... suddenly I drew a total blank at how they would refer to one another. I finally blurted out "co-wives!" Oh geez, what an idiot I am. The stuttering and stammering on my part was not intentional, I was actually looking for a respectful term and I wasn't coming up with anything and the more I stammered trying to find the right term the more it looked like I was looking for a smart remark or insulting term. It felt like this went on for a long time but it was really just seconds. The more I realized what a butt I was making of myself the more I stuttered and couldn't come up with a word.

Finally the woman on the phone kindly reminded me that we are all women and they are just like me. Just women. She did think I was trying to come up with an insulting remark. She was also tactfully telling me that she is also one of many wives to the same husband.

I just came clean with her. I said look, I don't know how I am going to get out of this one other than to apologize. I was trying to come up with a respectful term and I drew a blank. I am so very sorry. She laughed and told me she was used to this. I did explain that I just froze and nothing bright was coming to mind. I really was looking for a respectful term.

She laughed and said not to worry, she believed me. But she just asked me one question, would I please just promise her one thing. I said sure, what is it? She asked that I not believe everything I see and hear in the media. She said it just isn't like the media makes this out to be.

A little history. I live in Arizona and there are parts of AZ that have Mormons that believe in this lifestyle. There has been a great deal of media coverage on this and the are blasting these folks. I really don't know much about this lifestyle but today I realized I need to learn about it.

I am in serious need of a lesson in culture here. I point blank admitted this to the woman on the phone. She said she would see what she could find. I was looking for something to read and understand their point of view. She said she would do some checking and let me know.

A couple of hours later she called me and said that she came up with.. nothing. They are extremely private people and they just don't talk about their world much and they don't write about it. She asked around and pondered this since our previous conversation and she wasn't able to come up with anything.

I asked if I could ask a question and she said sure, go for it. I asked my question and she answered from her point of view.

This makes me realize, I don't want to be in that position again. I want to learn more about this but I don't know how. I want to be respectful of my patients but I'm at a loss as to how to do this.

Any suggestions for some good reading? A place where my questions will be answered? The more I understand their ways of living and thinking the better I can do for my two patients.

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. And does anyone have any similar experiences?

Specializes in ER.

The "Mormon" church aka Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does not support or condone pleural marriage. It was outlawed by the church in the late 1800's. It was begun during a time when many men died in the westward migration of the church and the deaths of many during persecution. Many women were left widowed and with children. This was a way to help these families survive.

Anyone practicing pleural marriage is ex communicated from the church, not allowed to attend the Temple or participate in Sacrament. The people who do practice it are members of any number of sects that the official church has done it's best to distance itself from. BTW, there are other "sects" of non LDS origin that also practice this form of marriage. My husband says he can only handle one woman, so two would be out of the question, although sometimes it might be nice to have someone help with the housework!:rotfl:

Specializes in Telemetry, ICU, Resource Pool, Dialysis.

Maybe if you ask about the history of polygamy, they may help you. Now that I think about it, you may not be received well it you ask about the modern-day practice. I think your best bet would be to go straight to the horse's mouth, so to say, and talk with the women you work with.

Specializes in ER.

"The gal I spoke to today suggested I take a trip and see for myself. I'm very tempted to do just that however I've never been good at keeping my thoughts and opinions to myself. If I see something I feel is dead wrong... well, you know."

While you may not approve of their lifestyle, bear in mind that there are many different lifestyles in this country. There are other "alternate" families including intentionally single parents, gay parents, grandparents raising their grandkids, interracial/multi racial families, and the list goes on. Every family is not mom, dad and 2.5 children. Just because you do not approve or understand their situation, does not mean you can not give compassionate, non judgemental care. You are there as their nurse, not their spiritual advisor.

I have to take care of drunks and drug users, criminals, wife beaters, etc. in my job in the ER. While I do not approve of the way they conduct their life, I have a responsibility to do what I can for them while they are in my care.

Just bear that in mind when you decide if you can keep your thoughts and opinions to yourself.

It isn't the family you are thinking of, but they are likely neighbors. Yes, this is Colorado City, Arizona. You know, I really haven't come across them in all these years. They don't meander to the valley much.

They aren't just in Arizona/Utah anymore. They are building a huge city in Texas now and they are also in Mexico. But yes, they are always near a border to escape if need be.

The woman I was talking to today told me if I were to Google Mormons and 1953 (I think I recall the year correctly) I would find a great deal of information about when the gov't went into their city and took all the children. They wanted to adopt them out to various families but didn't have families available. So they ended up putting them in SNFs for lack of anywhere else to place them. After two years and various court battles they got their children back.

I do plan on researching this, I'm interested in how that all played out.

I realized today how very ignorant I am of these folks. I had no idea the women worked, I thought they were all 'stay at home' Moms. One of the ladies I work with has some pretty strong opinions due to her time in Colorado City and she feels the women are abused and nothing more. She wasn't permitted to give many of them medical care because she is a woman. The husbands wanted a smart person caring for their wives, you know... a man.

I want first hand info. I want to learn more about this so I don't face another embarrassing moment like today.

It is the family that I am thinking of, just by the amount of children.........I lived in Arizona for 14 years.................and there was just a special on the familuies from Colorado City on the news in Phoenix in the last few months.

I think that it was on Channel 3.

I know. Actually since she was clearly open to educating me I asked if I could ask a question. I asked about the little girls. I said what little I know about this is that little adolescent girls are taken from their family and married off to old men. Was that true?

She claims that although it is true the girls are not forced to do this against their will. It is with their full permission.

Can a 14 year old little girl make that kind of decision?

I don't know, religion issues concern me. My bottom line is that I am going to be dealing with these folks more and more and I really need an education here. The gal I spoke to today suggested I take a trip and see for myself. I'm very tempted to do just that however I've never been good at keeping my thoughts and opinions to myself. If I see something I feel is dead wrong... well, you know.

I don't understand one mega issue. If these folks were in downtown Phoenix all the adults would be in jail and the children in foster care. I don't understand why it is permitted to marry these little girls off to older men just because they are in Colorado City. There is so much I don't understand.

My request to learn more really is sincere. I need to learn more about their culture so I don't offend by mistake.

The family that I am speaking about is from Colorado City, they get sent down to Phoenix for much of their medical care. If you have been working in Phoenix for any length of time, in either OB, PICU, or NICU, you will be sure to meet more of them..................

Also, if you check Channel 3's website, perhaps you can find a link to that writer and check out his book. It is quite factual and goes into depth about the practices up there. It was just in the news the other day, several members of the families up there have finally lost their credentials as police for breaking the laws. They were takien away on the the other side, but Arizona is finally thinking of doing the same I was just in Phoenix in the last two weeks and it was on the news again about this...just do a search.

The "Mormon" church aka Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does not support or condone pleural marriage. It was outlawed by the church in the late 1800's. It was begun during a time when many men died in the westward migration of the church and the deaths of many during persecution. Many women were left widowed and with children. This was a way to help these families survive.

Anyone practicing pleural marriage is ex communicated from the church, not allowed to attend the Temple or participate in Sacrament. The people who do practice it are members of any number of sects that the official church has done it's best to distance itself from. BTW, there are other "sects" of non LDS origin that also practice this form of marriage. My husband says he can only handle one woman, so two would be out of the question, although sometimes it might be nice to have someone help with the housework!:rotfl:

I know lots of Mormon folks that don't condone this lifestyle.

By b/f is the same as your hubby. We have talked about this issue and he doesn't 'get' it but he does try to understand their POV.

Maybe if you ask about the history of polygamy, they may help you. Now that I think about it, you may not be received well it you ask about the modern-day practice. I think your best bet would be to go straight to the horse's mouth, so to say, and talk with the women you work with.

Do you think I'd get the absolute truth?

"The gal I spoke to today suggested I take a trip and see for myself. I'm very tempted to do just that however I've never been good at keeping my thoughts and opinions to myself. If I see something I feel is dead wrong... well, you know."

While you may not approve of their lifestyle, bear in mind that there are many different lifestyles in this country. There are other "alternate" families including intentionally single parents, gay parents, grandparents raising their grandkids, interracial/multi racial families, and the list goes on. Every family is not mom, dad and 2.5 children. Just because you do not approve or understand their situation, does not mean you can not give compassionate, non judgemental care. You are there as their nurse, not their spiritual advisor.

I have to take care of drunks and drug users, criminals, wife beaters, etc. in my job in the ER. While I do not approve of the way they conduct their life, I have a responsibility to do what I can for them while they are in my care.

Just bear that in mind when you decide if you can keep your thoughts and opinions to yourself.

You know what? Honestly and sincerely I can do that, as long as it doesn't involve children.

Let the adults do anything they darn well please. But children... oye, that's a whole new ballgame.

However you are correct, my job in this case is not to judge but to understand. Regardless of how it seems, I really am trying to do just that.

First, I am not saying I condone a 14yr old getting married.

There are mature adults who do practice a form of polygamy under the radar.

It is not always a bad thing. Some women have been able to continue their education while the "others" take care of the children.

If you read "The Red Tent" (granted, a fictional story in biblical times) it talks about the built in support network of the other women in the family. The "red tent" was where they went during their "unclean time". All of these women were friends. They were supportive of each other. Yes, there were episodes of jealousy(and doesn't that happen with siblings as well?) However, they all came into the marriages with different strengths and weaknesses.

Statistically, it makes sense, when you consider that there are far more women than men in the world. You have a built in support network. In this day and age, it works a bit differently. Few men can make the kind of money needed to sustain more than one wife and several children. Probably not any worse than the situations many females find themselves.

Specializes in Med/Surge, Psych, LTC, Home Health.

Myself, I feel like if I had to care for members of these poly families, that I would be able to do so with the same compassion and understanding of their medical condition, that I would provide to anyone else. However, if I were to simply take a trip to Colorado City... I have to admit, I would have a hard time hiding my disapproval of their lifestyle. I think even if I didn't SAY anything, it would show on my face. I'm just practiced in adopting an entirely different, detached attitude towards *patients* who engage in lifestyles that I throughly disapprove of.

*Note: I don't actually disapprove of their lifestyle per se; I think it's more how the women get treated.. how they allow themselves to be treated.. and it's like, they're brainwashed.

Anyway... I think AzMichelle was trying to say something similar, maybe? That if she were actually CARING for them in the hospital, it would be different than if she were just in Colorado City, mingling among them.

Here in Kentucky we don't see much polygamy. =) A few OTHER weird things, but no polygamy.

Specializes in ER.
You know what? Honestly and sincerely I can do that, as long as it doesn't involve children.

Let the adults do anything they darn well please. But children... oye, that's a whole new ballgame.

However you are correct, my job in this case is not to judge but to understand. Regardless of how it seems, I really am trying to do just that.

It sounds like you are trying to do the right thing. I don't understand the polygamy culture, nor do I understand a lot of cultures! I think you are approaching this the right way and it will be received in that spirit.

I agree with you when it comes to abuse of children. I would give "adequate" care to someone who was a child abuser, I suppose, but I would not like it. We do have to remember people are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but sometimes that can take a distant second to our emotional reaction.

While a 14 year old in our western culture is still considered a child, it is not in all cultures. I wound have raised holy hell if anyone had tried to take my daughter away for marriage at age 14, but in many cultures that is acceptable.

The US is constantly changing it's demographics and we will continue to see things we do not understand or approve of. There are many unusual medical practices, foods, and lifestyles out there that we are coming across more and more. I think your approach to asking respectfully what is the right thing to do and say is the best way. I doubt anyone would be offended by the simple comment that you do not understand something and would like to know how you can be more helpful to them. Good luck and keep us abreast of the situation.

There are definitely cultural issues you run into in this job, and it's not my place to condemn anyone, I don't think. I once cared for a young man who was an Ashkenazi Jew from Israel - they have very little physical contact between genders and I wasn't supposed to look him in the eye or touch him without gloves on. Most of the nurses on the floor found this sexist and demeaning to women, but it really wasn't intended that way at all. I looked him in the eye and smiled at him by mistake while taking his history and this poor boy blushed bright red right to the roots of his hair - I thought he was going to blow up, poor kid. For some reason I found this rather sweet and ended up taking him as a primary patient, and I learned a lot about Ashkenazi culture and Jewish holidays and such.

+ Add a Comment