I *do* recognize the need for nursing theory

Nursing Students Post Graduate

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but I am a bit appalled by the theory and research classes requird for my NP program while we covered the entire cardiovascular system in 1.2 hours of Patho. Why is that ??????????????????

We have Nursing Theory, Research and Research and Theory.

How are other programs compared to this one ?

Specializes in Critical Care.
Now, I truly am duckin' out for a while b/c I have become completely enthralled w/ this thread and am neglecting some of my ADL b/c of it...LOL

Get thyself into a shower, right now!

~faith,

Timothy.

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But you said you don't believe in EBP!

What I have maintained is EBP is a component of nursing but it is not generally accepted as a nursing theory. And the portion you just quoted, regarding theory, is based on the adaptation theory, not on EBP. I could approach the EBP as the newest and latest buzz words, steeped in a vocabulary without much meaning. But I will not.:chair:

Grannynurse

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Specializes in Critical Care.
What I have maintained is EBP is a component of nursing but it is not generally accepted as a nursing theory. And the portion you just quoted, regarding theory, is based on the adaptation theory, not on EBP. I could approach the EBP as the newest and latest buzz words, steeped in a vocabulary without much meaning. But I will not.:chair:

Grannynurse

Let me just say this:

IHI and the 100,000 lives campaign. The thrust of the IHI is to use EBP to implement proven strategies nationwide.

Evidence based practice is NOT going away and it is exactly the interlaced knowledge base that will allow us to interface as professionals w/ our professional peers.

That's a kind of nursing theory I can relate to.

~faith,

Timothy.

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I am new to this and have found this discussion so interesting. What does EBP and IHI stand for? I just ordered my books for my first graduate theory course. I was just wondering if you wouldn't mind commenting on your opinions of these books please.

1. Integrated Knowledge Development in Nursing- Chinn

2. Nursing Theories- George

3. American Psychological Association-Publication Manual

I know I am a bit off topic, but I would appreciate your opinions as I start out learning about this topic which I find extremely interesting to say the least. Thanks Krissy

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Specializes in Critical Care.
I am new to this and have found this discussion so interesting. What does EBP and IHI stand for? I just ordered my books for my first graduate theory course. I was just wondering if you wouldn't mind commenting on your opinions of these books please.

EBP - evidence based practice: the process of implementing nationwide those practices proven to be effective in providing better, safer care.

IHI - Institute for Healthcare Initiatives: the organization at the forefront of taking EBP nationwide - with the goal of saving 100,000 lives a year as a result.

Sorry, I can't comment on your books/topics. Except to say that we should have saved a few trees.

~faith,

Timothy.

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Specializes in ICU, ER, HH, NICU, now FNP.

If theory isnt working as a basis, than why not EBP? Why not anything else? Why not something people agree upon. I am not sure you are really understanding what I was trying to say about EBP.

EBP provides a basis for practice that has proof, that has science as it's foundation. In centuries past, perhaps it was enough for nurses to have little knowledge of science andbe more focused on the ministry aspects of practice - and yes - theory applied to that era.

Things are changing in this "new age" of nursing, nurses are expected to be technically and scientifically competant - maybe even more so than spiritually compentant, in many settings.

The problem I am having with your arguments FOR theory is that they are contradictory - as others have pointed out. However - it appears your experience with and exposure to theory has also been significantly different than many of us so perhaps that accounts for some of that.

Throw out the EBP terminology then - use the word evidence - because that word has been around for hundreds of years. THAT is NOT based on buzz words or alternate language - not even close.

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Apologies to GrannyNurseFNP. I shouldn't post when it's way past my bedtime. The ramifications of nursing theories (the good, the bad, and the ugly) are too important for throw away words like bogus and bankrupt.

Gen raised an excellent point. She wrote

Another thing that irks me in nursing theory is that it seemingly denies the existence of -other- disciplines as a whole and yet tries to permeate itself through those very disciplines themselves as if it is the one and only. Ay ay ay.

I've wondered the same thing.

My understanding was that Nsg. Theory was valuable to our profession because it articulated and defined our unique body of knowledge and realm of practice. When I was being taught Nsg Theory (admittedly 30 years ago) the whole point of it was to set us apart from other professions. In particular it was to make clear we were not physicians' little flunkies. For that reason, as I recollect, theories were designed specifically to avoid aspects of professional roles that were interdependent with medicine, i.e., the pathophysiological aspects of disease. Hense there was very little connection between (some) theories and any of the hard sciences.

But THEN, like Gen... I noticed that theorists are freely borrowing from psychology, sociology, education and so forth to derive their theories. And usually borrowing bits that are not empirically based.

So, we are left with the observation that maybe there is not a unique body of knowledge that is the sole pervue of nursing. Would that be a fair statement?

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Specializes in Critical Care.
If theory isnt working as a basis, than why not EBP? Why not anything else? Why not something people agree upon. I am not sure you are really understanding what I was trying to say about EBP.

EBP provides a basis for practice that has proof, that has science as it's foundation. In centuries past, perhaps it was enough for nurses to have little knowledge of science andbe more focused on the ministry aspects of practice - and yes - theory applied to that era.

Things are changing in this "new age" of nursing, nurses are expected to be technically and scientifically competant - maybe even more so than spiritually compentant, in many settings.

The problem I am having with your arguments FOR theory is that they are contradictory - as others have pointed out. However - it appears your experience with and exposure to theory has also been significantly different than many of us so perhaps that accounts for some of that.

Throw out the EBP terminology then - use the word evidence - because that word has been around for hundreds of years. THAT is NOT based on buzz words or alternate language - not even close.

You cite the source of my disdain for theory.

I'm an applied science professional. The theology aspects of my care are indeed important, but not to the exclusion or even dominance of my technical expertise.

I hate the constant reference to nurses as 'angels'. I'm a highly trained, highly competent bedside monitor and interventioner. The care aspects of my job greatly aid in restoring health along a holistic spectrum (dang, maybe I should BECOME a theorist) - but the technical aspects of my job are what allow me to tune my well trained radar to detect subtle changes and correct them so that my pt's physical condition improves to the point of addressing their psychosocial condition.

It's the ABCs of medicine. My primary goal is to use my technical expertise to aid in the physical improvement of my pts SO THAT I can ultimately address the mental improvement of my pts. But the physical wellbeing is the priority intervention.

~faith,

Timothy.

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Oh, by the way... I thought the comments about the ANA were interesting. This is another area about which I am very conflicted. I'm going to introduce a thread on it in the General Nursing Discussion Group.

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I hope this doesn't change the focus too much:

Chinn and Kramer was one of the first books I read when I started in my doctoral program at the University of South Africa, (recommended by my advisor). I thought it was a pretty good discussion of nursing knowledge and theory, after not being too involved with theory for about 25 years. Some of it must have stuck, because I have changed from a theory hater to a theory embracer. Chinn and Krammer has the advantage of being clear and well written.

(APA Manual is tedious but has the advantage of giving a format for absolutely everything. )

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Specializes in Critical Care.
Oh, by the way... I thought the comments about the ANA were interesting. This is another area about which I am very conflicted. I'm going to introduce a thread on it in the General Nursing Discussion Group.

OH it's been done.

All the regulars on this site will just roll their eyes. LOL.

And inside of 10 posts, all the BSNs will be calling the ADN/ASNs underqualified or mere 'technicians' to their 'professional' status, and all the ADNs/ASNs will call the BSNs arrogant and not particularly better prepared (ala ADN programs contain more clinicals, etc.)

It's not a topic that is normally debated rationally.

Even if you bring it up as an ANA issue, it will become a BSN vs. ADN thread.

~faith,

Timothy.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
I hope this doesn't change the focus too much:

Chinn and Kramer was one of the first books I read when I started in my doctoral program at the University of South Africa, (recommended by my advisor). I thought it was a pretty good discussion of nursing knowledge and theory, after not being too involved with theory for about 25 years. Some of it must have stuck, because I have changed from a theory hater to a theory embracer. Chinn and Krammer has the advantage of being clear and well written.

(APA Manual is tedious but has the advantage of giving a format for absolutely everything. )

But here's the rub: If you were a good nurse for 25 yrs BEFORE you embraced theory, then how can it be argued that theory is in any way 'foundational' to nursing?

You're the very proof that it is not.

~faith,

Timothy.

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