I Make Less Than a Brand New Nurse, Why?

[Nurse Beth]

Dear Nurse Beth,

I am a nurse of 15+ years, have my MSN (CNL), and for whatever reason, I make significantly less than most nurses in my area with same or fewer years of experience, same or less education, and I've had many certifications.

I have even asked friends who work where I am applying what they make, so I can negotiate a fair pay. Some have shown me pay stubs so I can get a glimpse of benefits so I know the full story. I can't understand why I can't seem to be able to negotiate pay and benefits like everyone else.

I have even had job offers withdrawn when I am firm with my job expectations. I have found out that I am making $6 less than the next lowest paid nurse in my company (she printed out her check stub online and left it laying on the desk accidentally). She's been a nurse for 2 years and has her ADN, and started after I did, the next lowest paid after her started 3 weeks before me and is a brand new nurse, ADN and makes $7 more an hour, as she was laughing about making more than the other ($6) nurse, and showed me her pay stub. I didn't say how much I made, I was too embarrassed...

---

Dear Making Less,

It's a little hard to follow, but it seems you started with this company recently as you started approximately the same time as the nurse who is brand new. Let's say that you were hired at $30.00 an hour.

You are saying that first the brand new nurse was hired at $37.00 an hour.

Next, you were hired at $30.00 an hour.

Then the third nurse was hired at $36.00 an hour.

You don't say if you all have the same job and responsibilities, or if you all have equally benefited positions. Is one of the other nurses working a different status, such as per diem or non-benefited?

All things being equal, this is odd. This is not salary compression, because you started the same time as the others. We don't know if the brand new nurse was offered more initially, or was offered less and negotiated. Negotiating as a new grad is not usual because new grads don't bring experience or added skills.

Don't compare salaries when you talk to your manager. Ask for a raise or market salary adjustment based on your skills, experience and prevailing market wage. Focus on what you bring to the organization. Good luck.

Best wishes,

Nurse Beth

Author, "Your Last Nursing Class: How to Land Your First Nursing Job"...and your next!

[Tommy5677]

This kind of thing happens all the time and sorry but there are no employer excuses here. Economic downturn is BS. People don't stop getting sick in bad economies. New nurses are brought on at the current pay rate but you are unable to keep up because when you were hired the pay was lower and your measly 3% per year, if you're lucky (this is often merit based rather than cost of living so you usually get way less than 3%) leaves you way behind with others with less experience and time in the profession.

Once, I actually had a department head ask my supervisor why my salary was so comparatively low. That year I got a 13% raise.

Despite what employers want you to believe they cannot legally prevent you from talking to other colleagues about money. They intimidate you about this to prevent you from finding out what you already knew in this case. Don't be afraid to go to them and ask where you fall in the salary range with other nurses doing your job. When negotiating with prospective new employers I start with the mean salary range of a nurse in my area doing my job with my years of experience.

Then I would ask you, why with an MSN are you working at same level positions as an ADN?Seems there's something wrong with that.

[caliotter3]

One time I drove clear to Timbuktoo in hopes of returning home with employment. Went through all the paperwork drill and what spiel they presented me until at the end I brought up salary. When I heard that insulting amount, I flat out told them I could not justify working for that amount with my experience and education. They were quick to get out of my way as I headed for the door. The only good thing about the encounter was that my car didn't get a parking ticket. Went away with self esteem intact but still just as unemployed as when I drove down there. Employers don't insult one with low wage offers if there weren't people eager to scarf up those low wage jobs.

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

Then I would ask you, why with an MSN are you working at same level positions as an ADN?Seems there's something wrong with that.

I have

It's sad tho, I'm expected to pick up the slack of the 2 that were hired with me because I have the experience to assess situations quickly and go. If there were other employers in our area, I'd go, but it's not an option. Can't move, my husband is a farmer, and our land/business is a large family based operation, so we can't just sell and go

[Persephone Paige, ADN]

I have

It's sad tho, I'm expected to pick up the slack of the 2 that were hired with me because I have the experience to assess situations quickly and go. If there were other employers in our area, I'd go, but it's not an option. Can't move, my husband is a farmer, and our land/business is a large family based operation, so we can't just sell and go

My Uncle is a Lt. Colonel in the ARMY. He said, 'when you reach that rank, the ARMY owns you.' It would be nothing for an ADN to switch gears and go into a different direction. It would be harder for you to do that, you have a huge investment in nursing. When it comes to clinical nursing, the majority of your staff are going to be BSN and ADN (in my opinion). When I think MSN, I think educators, Clinical Nurse Specialists, etc. It is to their advantage to pander to the lower educated nurse's (of which I am one ), we need them and they need us. As a rule, you would not ordinarily need them. It just so happens that you live in a geographical location that limits you. Just thinking outside the box...

[HomeBound]

My first thought was also ageism, but that was laid to rest.

Two questions come to mind. 1. Did you see their resumes? 2. Are you sure that this facility that you are hired on with "gives credit" for advanced degrees?

The reason I ask. My best friend and I graduated the same year, from the same school. My background has a vastly different skillset than his. When I applied to be a new grad, I received offers from all 3 of the places I applied. He didn't get one interview. He ended up in LTC while I was placed in a highly coveted spot in a unit that rarely takes new grads.

We "should" be making the same at this point, as we both worked at the same place for the same amount of time prior to me leaving. That was not the case. The hospital "gave points" for certain things on my resume---things I deliberately did and knew would give me "points". He relied on his veteran status and refused to do anything that might put him on the radar.

Your CNL may not mean anything to this facility. I had a conversation just yesterday with my unit educator about my second Bachelors not being "counted" in my pay grade assignment---and she very bluntly said..."Anybody can get a Master's now, with online degree mills. I would have to get your transcripts, get all of the courses and compare them to see if they would even amount to anything here."

Online education has, in some ways, hobbled higher levels of achievement. She's right. Your MSN "may" mean absolutely nothing to your employer. Your colleagues may have certifications that are "rewarded"---CEN, CCRN, Certified Dialysis RN, EMT, ACLS, PALS, NIHSS---things that would directly impact and be valuable in a dialysis unit. I know plenty of MSNs where their competency lies in....informatics. I applaud the effort and accomplishment, but what would a degree in informatics do for my dialysis unit, if you are hired as a bedside dialysis nurse?

So a friend of mine has an MSN and quite a few years of dialysis/ICU/EMT-P experience. She went on, after leaving bedside about 10 years ago, to do her MSN in Leadership (or something like that). She was simply outraged that when she wanted a teaching job, it offered her $20K less than she made as a unit nurse. She took it anyway. She taught for 8 years and then decided that she wanted to go back to bedside, for the money/pension.

She was started out at a pay grade that would be equivalent of a nurse who had a year or so of experience. Because she had been away from bedside for so long--yes---concepts are the same in theory, but technology/protocols/evidence based practice all moved along without her. She needed to be trained up to be a floor nurse again. Despite her MSN and years of experience prior to leaving for teaching.

There are also very simple (and very illegal) reasons. It might not be easy to hear, but perhaps the NM or whomever it was hiring these other two...clicked with them more. It's horrible to think that my salary depends on my ability to kiss someone's rear....but that is how it goes every day.

A girl who was a CNA in our unit, slaving away, being promised a job when she graduated---but behind her back, people thought she needed to be on meds for her high anxiety/ADD style---she graduated and was told "we aren't taking new grads. so sorry. get a year of experience and come back." total lie. But it's illegal to say to her face...."you don't fit in."

I was brought on board, at my current job, being a "new nurse to the unit", at a higher payrate than my preceptor who has 8 years in this facility, 4 in the specialty unit. I know it's different than being hired on at the same time and being paid differently---but the concept is the same in that she started at this place when new to unit with >5 years of experience meant $X. She immediately gets on the ladder and makes her way up over time. I come in...new to unit rates have changed due to COLA and such, in addition to my previous certifications/experience being "more relevant" to this unit. She had med surg, I had ED. This is ICU. Her MSN and my BSN--didn't make any real difference.

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

My first thought was also ageism, but that was laid to rest.

Two questions come to mind. 1. Did you see their resumes? 2. Are you sure that this facility that you are hired on with "gives credit" for advanced degrees?

The reason I ask. My best friend and I graduated the same year, from the same school. My background has a vastly different skillset than his. When I applied to be a new grad, I received offers from all 3 of the places I applied. He didn't get one interview. He ended up in LTC while I was placed in a highly coveted spot in a unit that rarely takes new grads.

We "should" be making the same at this point, as we both worked at the same place for the same amount of time prior to me leaving. That was not the case. The hospital "gave points" for certain things on my resume---things I deliberately did and knew would give me "points". He relied on his veteran status and refused to do anything that might put him on the radar.

Your CNL may not mean anything to this facility. I had a conversation just yesterday with my unit educator about my second Bachelors not being "counted" in my pay grade assignment---and she very bluntly said..."Anybody can get a Master's now, with online degree mills. I would have to get your transcripts, get all of the courses and compare them to see if they would even amount to anything here."

Online education has, in some ways, hobbled higher levels of achievement. She's right. Your MSN "may" mean absolutely nothing to your employer. Your colleagues may have certifications that are "rewarded"---CEN, CCRN, Certified Dialysis RN, EMT, ACLS, PALS, NIHSS---things that would directly impact and be valuable in a dialysis unit. I know plenty of MSNs where their competency lies in....informatics. I applaud the effort and accomplishment, but what would a degree in informatics do for my dialysis unit, if you are hired as a bedside dialysis nurse?

So a friend of mine has an MSN and quite a few years of dialysis/ICU/EMT-P experience. She went on, after leaving bedside about 10 years ago, to do her MSN in Leadership (or something like that). She was simply outraged that when she wanted a teaching job, it offered her $20K less than she made as a unit nurse. She took it anyway. She taught for 8 years and then decided that she wanted to go back to bedside, for the money/pension.

She was started out at a pay grade that would be equivalent of a nurse who had a year or so of experience. Because she had been away from bedside for so long--yes---concepts are the same in theory, but technology/protocols/evidence based practice all moved along without her. She needed to be trained up to be a floor nurse again. Despite her MSN and years of experience prior to leaving for teaching.

There are also very simple (and very illegal) reasons. It might not be easy to hear, but perhaps the NM or whomever it was hiring these other two...clicked with them more. It's horrible to think that my salary depends on my ability to kiss someone's rear....but that is how it goes every day.

A girl who was a CNA in our unit, slaving away, being promised a job when she graduated---but behind her back, people thought she needed to be on meds for her high anxiety/ADD style---she graduated and was told "we aren't taking new grads. so sorry. get a year of experience and come back." total lie. But it's illegal to say to her face...."you don't fit in."

I was brought on board, at my current job, being a "new nurse to the unit", at a higher payrate than my preceptor who has 8 years in this facility, 4 in the specialty unit. I know it's different than being hired on at the same time and being paid differently---but the concept is the same in that she started at this place when new to unit with >5 years of experience meant $X. She immediately gets on the ladder and makes her way up over time. I come in...new to unit rates have changed due to COLA and such, in addition to my previous certifications/experience being "more relevant" to this unit. She had med surg, I had ED. This is ICU. Her MSN and my BSN--didn't make any real difference.

It wasn't my MSN, but 20 years as nurse with ICU and med/surg experience, whereas the one nurse, this is her first healthcare job ever, the other nurse had 2 years experience as a part time school nurse. It didn't make much sense to me. Another nurse who worked with me and got CNL at the same time, hired by same company, same day, different location in our town. Same amount of experience, except hers is all LTC, got offered $5 more from the get go, negotiated $8 more an hour. She's already been terminated by the way, because she could not get ghrough the learning curve of dialysis and called in often. So, degree was not even a main part of the equation, just a point

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

Have you considered expanding your MSN to a clinical focus: NP? As an APRN (at least in IL) you bring money to the hospital or private practice. So, you do have more negotiating room.

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

On 1/4/2019 at 6:15 AM, traumaRUs said:

Have you considered expanding your MSN to a clinical focus: NP? As an APRN (at least in IL) you bring money to the hospital or private practice. So, you do have more negotiating room.

I did, but at my age, not worth the student loan hassle.

Update: I did transfer to the other location in my town and immediately got a $6/hr raise. The manager there said that he didn't know why the original situation happened, but since I'd worked there a few times to help out, he wanted me to feel appreciated in the company. I'm ecstatic, started at new rate the day after Christmas!

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

2 hours ago, Hoosier_RN said:

I did, but at my age, not worth the student loan hassle.

Update: I did transfer to the other location in my town and immediately got a $6/hr raise. The manager there said that he didn't know why the original situation happened, but since I'd worked there a few times to help out, he wanted me to feel appreciated in the company. I'm ecstatic, started at new rate the day after Christmas!

Congratulations!