I know this an old beast but if I cannot vent and speak my mind freely here (within reason); where else can I?
I am quite annoyed; I have several friends who are in a BSN program and it's evident that their course load is extremely light; it's evident that they are babied and quite frankly... it ANNOYS ME.
I was flat out told by professors that they are here to break us down and build us back up. In fact, one professor told me in private that they strive to make exams are ridiculously hard as possible.
In my theory class we had (at one point of time) the class average was a 50%. It's not because we're not studying; I see how we study... we studied hard... it's THOSE exams.
Then after I find out I get ALL C's ... my friend in (BSN) student tells me how she got 2 B's and an A thanks to receiving (wait for it)... bonus points... (HOLD UP... bonus points? what is this... grammar school?)
We get no bonus points, we get NO rounding of grades. My other BSN friend was surprised to hear that professors don't round. (Seriously? Your professors round? this is a professional school; there's NO rounding).
She was also surprised to here we do 2 care plans the night BEFORE ... they do ONE care plan ... and get an entire WEEK.
The part that truly infuriates me is that she says that her classmates truly believe that ADN's are the equivalent of a CNA.
Don't get me wrong; nothing wrong with being a CNA... it just makes me angry because I've spent nights studying (sleepless nights). I've gone to clinical with 1 - 2 hours of sleep.
BOTH are in 3rd semester and have already taken Medsurg 1 & 2 and pharm... and do NOT know the relationship between Mannitol and HF (why it's Contraindicated) ... okay, I guess I can't knock them for not possessing recall knowledge but for the love of the Big Guy, I don't think it's rocket science.
They can talk to me about theories and Florence nightingale but not how the physician will most likely fix Dig Toxicity and what their nursing responsibilities would be.
They can tell me about Barton but not about WHY we check potassium before administering insulin to our DKA patients.
and THEY are preferred to be hired rather than me?
Well FINE... have at it...
when I graduate and am refused a job (I WILL be working on my BSN prereqs) because I don't already have a BSN ... you will lose someone who will:
NOT be scared to get down and dirty
NOT be scared to defend my patients health
GLADLY learn new thing (otherwise I wouldn't bridge to BSN)
GLADLY do the "lowly" task
GLADLY perform the complicated procedures AFTER I understand the rationale and pathophysiology behind my interventions.
Just to add some wood to the fire; my clinical buddy was doing clinical and she floated to another floor b/c her original floor had too many new grads who were shadowing...
she floated to a floor with students from a BSN program and ALL they did was sit, chat, chew gum, and TEXT...
We get sent HOME for having our phone. We get sent home for having a speck of mud on our shoes.
I'm not sure what exactly the studies say about BSN prepared nurses but I think it's malarkey.
I'm sure it can help with management but honestly; you're going to say my hard work has earned me a CNA position?
LOL. I'm not laughing at your vent. I'm laughing at the "universalness" of this anecdote.
I was the typical career changer, got a BSN, and ran straight into the NP program (because I went to school to be a psych NP [nothing else]). We had a few people who dropped out of the associate's degree RN program to enter our's because although they would take four times the classes the programs were the same length.
In comparison, they said the BSN program, which was about one-fifth the size of the ADN program, was hands down more student friendly. In my observations, it seems as though the ADNs were being pushed through a funnel. Most made it through, but some slipped over the edge.
In the BSN program I learned a good bit about healthcare funding, what I'd already learned about management albeit from another life, research, evidence based practice, etc. We also were given more coursework on assessment, pathophysiology, and pharmacology (my favorites!).
Having said that, I cannot tell you anything text book or "best practice" about tending to any sort of stoma, -ostomy, chronic wound, any of those -derm dressings, Foley, or for that matter gynecological problem but I think ignorance is bliss im some respects, etc. We were not a procedure oriented degree and although I'm working as a RN in a medical unit I don't do any of that now. In fact, when we have patients like those in census I defer them to LPNs because they're usually the best at tending to said matters. I get the consult on "does this look right?" and generally that refers to tissue appearance, etc. I can guage that. I just don't know what to put on it, lol. I am, however, the only one that can read the telemetry waveforms in this unit, and I get asked about meds a lot by others I work with.
My interests in medicine are organ-specific and what's happening at the cellular level. I didn't know at the time that nursing wasn't actually devoted to this particular area, lol. You may think it's odd that I chose psychiatrics, and it is. That's my chosen career now. Knowing about the pathophysiology of the rest of the body is merely a fascinating side interest. Do I want to get hands on and do anything about it? Not really. Judge me not because it's not what I want or need to do in life. Others want to do it so they do.
That is SUCH a misconception, if you would have read the entire thread you would discovered it's NOT skills that I'm in awe they don't know how to deal with.
My school has 16 weeks of skills check off ... crammed in with the whole foundations of nursing and nursing history...
8 wks. - In foundations we covered everything from washing hands, making a bed, vital signs, injections, and IV therapy.
8 wks.- In intermediate skills I learned: Trach care, wound care, foley placement, and NGT.
These girls (to my knowledge) weren't lacking psychomotor skills ... they're lacking the exact thing you like ... the whole understanding behind the procedures.
Is it some misconception that ADN's are just skills nurses? If so; I might have as well applied to the LPN program. Not belittling LPNs but... as I have learned LPN are hands on and more about skills... RN is that plus rationale.
Please ... *shaking my head*.
Quite frankly, I'm here to do WHATEVER it takes. At the moment my heart wants to be an ICU nurse. I want to not only know the in depth pathophysiology; I want to get down and dirty. I want to do live, breathe, eat, and sleep nursing.
I am already reading into some critical care literature and I am enjoying it so much; I am hoping I will as equally fascinated when I rotate.
My plan is to eventually become an NP or CRNA as well. After years of learning I can possibly learn from ICU.
If I go the NP route- I would like to be a critical care NP.
At the end all I want to do is learn. I don't appreciate when people belittle my education. That's what this vent was about.
Like it or not? that's that. (=
Also at the end of day I think (if I may form my own opinion as a student) nurses can be very proud of their education and knowledge AND experience ... nursing is all about learning something new everyday so honestly ... once again at the end of the day..
this whole BSN vs ADN is pointless to a degree... (this is why I acknowledge my post was a v-e-n-t.)
I feel like I'm receiving a license to LEARN to be honest.
Now now.. don't try to use that against me and say "your program must not be preparing you"
My BSN program busted some serious butt... wish I had instructors that would have let me stand around like the BSN students you've seen!
I think that perhaps one difference in ADN vs. BSN programs is how hard instructors try to weed students out. This is true of my local schools, can't say for sure that it generalizes, but I've heard horror stories about local ADN programs whose professors give insanely hard tests, etc., and never curve. My program had some insanely hard tests, too (particularly the first test of advanced med-surg that had a crazy amount of rhythm strips) but we were well prepared and the teachers would curve if everyone did badly, and they were always there to support us and be resources. Did we still have people flunk out? Absolutely! We lost several of our class before graduation, which was two days ago. However, most of the teachers tried very hard to make sure we passed. They always had office hours available and would ask if we were doing okay if our grades weren't up to par. I think BSN students may have more support from their instructors than ADN students. That doesn't mean that because I got all As and only one B+ in my program that my program was easier. I still feel well-prepared both for the NCLEX and for practice. My preceptor for my final clinical said I was very sharp and knew more about pathophysiology and the way things worked than most of the students she'd precepted for in the past, which I think speaks volumes about my school's BSN program because I was working with her in the Medical ICU with crazy complex patients.
Also, I don't think grading harshly shows that a school is good. I think it shows incompetent instruction. The competition to get into nursing school was fierce. We are all obviously bright individuals who work hard. If the class average is 50% with the crazy overachievers I sit with and we all studied hard, there is only one thing that could be wrong - the education. If a teacher is going to test on something he/she should teach it and make sure the students understand. Does anyone really think that beating someone into the ground will make them confident in their knowledge later? I have never understood that. Beating people down is a way to make them fail. It's absolutely an example of nurses eating their young. It is absolutely not promoting success.
No offense OP but this whole thread, you have come off as abrasive and you've downright offended me as a BSN student.
Also, you may think your program is hard, but I find it unreasonable. Harsh grading scales will only hurt students when it comes to applying for BSN and grad school programs and many of the BSN programs want their students to pursue NP and CRNA, hence why they have a more realistic grading scale. In the long run, getting straight C's is only going to hurt you as you make your way through the nursing school. You may think the BSN students have it easy, but I know for a fact that not all BSN students have it like that. I sure don't. Nursing school is stressful, whether you are a bachelor's prepared nurse or a adn prepared nurse. This cattiness is not helping the profession and in my opinion, this whole thread just reinforces the need to standardized the level of entry into the nursing field. If everyone was required a bachelor's degree, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Now instead of focusing on others and tearing them down, turn your attention to you and work on bringing yourself up. I promise, you will be much happier in the end.
No offense OP but this whole thread, you have come off as abrasive and you've downright offended me as a BSN student.
Also, you may think your program is hard, but I find it unreasonable. Harsh grading scales will only hurt students when it comes to applying for BSN and grad school programs and many of the BSN programs want their students to pursue NP and CRNA, hence why they have a more realistic grading scale. In the long run, getting straight C's is only going to hurt you as you make your way through the nursing school. You may think the BSN students have it easy, but I know for a fact that not all BSN students have it like that. I sure don't. Nursing school is stressful, whether you are a bachelor's prepared nurse or a adn prepared nurse. This cattiness is not helping the profession and in my opinion, this whole thread just reinforces the need to standardized the level of entry into the nursing field. If everyone was required a bachelor's degree, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Now instead of focusing on others and tearing them down, turn your attention to you and work on bringing yourself up. I promise, you will be much happier in the end.
If you don't like it? don't read my thread ... it was vent... move on "princess".
So you are allowed to share your opinion but someone else isn't? Interesting.
Oh... do not place words in my mouth... If she/he becomes offended at my vent- that is out of my control. I carry a professional demeanor- whether it the college hallways or he ward.
I welcome opinions, but I'll givey opinion in return.
If she/he feels greatly offender they can move on.
I honestly already realised that in actuality this wouldn't be the means by which to take action... that this wouldn't be conducive to a practical approach.
Now... if people would read the thread... they would understand.
I would also like to remind people that this disclaimer was mentioned.
If you don't like it? don't read my thread ... it was vent... move on "princess".
My experience:
I went to an ADN school. Got a solid education and I learned a lot, not because the school taught me a lot, but because I wanted to learn it. There were also a lot of students in the school that thought it was an extension of high school or a glorified job orientation. Specifically, they didn't put time in, they did not gain a vast amount of knowledge, and they ended up failing out of school. On one hand, I felt bad for them, on the other hand, they earned it. So please, don't go on with the whole "every ADN student is awesome" line of thought.
Fast forward a year. My 2nd nursing job I was working with mostly ADN nurses (I was taking classes online for my BSN, which I have now earned). This is a generalization, and I don't mean to implicate every ADN nurse there, but the vast majority of nurses there were just at work for the paycheck. The didn't try to better themselves or the unit....some where even out-and-out hostile toward learning new information. Again, this was not every ADN nurse there, but this was the prevailing attitude.
I then moved to my current job at a magnet hospital, with a much higher percentage of BSN nurses. Here there are strong committees that are lead by nurses. We are constantly given materials (e.g. journal articles) that are meant to improve the staff. Said staff is eager to learn and the staff wants to make our unit better for both patients and nurses. The nurses want to implement top-notch, evidence based care.
I (and I am sure the holds true for other nurses) am a better nurse since I went back to school and earned my BSN.
Now this is only one nurse's experience and it is certainly not the rule everyone. Your rant was just one student's experience. Please, don't believe that this is the way it is everywhere.
Since this is an old beast that will never be resolved. Can an higher power please close this thread? Adn and Bsn are both great and needed. Sorry op had a tough experience. Get over. And go vent to your friends. Not to your peers.
StudentOfHealing
612 Posts
That is SUCH a misconception, if you would have read the entire thread you would discovered it's NOT skills that I'm in awe they don't know how to deal with.
My school has 16 weeks of skills check off ... crammed in with the whole foundations of nursing and nursing history...
8 wks. - In foundations we covered everything from washing hands, making a bed, vital signs, injections, and IV therapy.
8 wks.- In intermediate skills I learned: Trach care, wound care, foley placement, and NGT.
These girls (to my knowledge) weren't lacking psychomotor skills ... they're lacking the exact thing you like ... the whole understanding behind the procedures.
Is it some misconception that ADN's are just skills nurses? If so; I might have as well applied to the LPN program. Not belittling LPNs but... as I have learned LPN are hands on and more about skills... RN is that plus rationale.
Please ... *shaking my head*.
Quite frankly, I'm here to do WHATEVER it takes. At the moment my heart wants to be an ICU nurse. I want to not only know the in depth pathophysiology; I want to get down and dirty. I want to do live, breathe, eat, and sleep nursing.
I am already reading into some critical care literature and I am enjoying it so much; I am hoping I will as equally fascinated when I rotate.
My plan is to eventually become an NP or CRNA as well. After years of learning I can possibly learn from ICU.
If I go the NP route- I would like to be a critical care NP.
At the end all I want to do is learn. I don't appreciate when people belittle my education. That's what this vent was about.
Like it or not? that's that. (=
Also at the end of day I think (if I may form my own opinion as a student) nurses can be very proud of their education and knowledge AND experience ... nursing is all about learning something new everyday so honestly ... once again at the end of the day..
this whole BSN vs ADN is pointless to a degree... (this is why I acknowledge my post was a v-e-n-t.)
I feel like I'm receiving a license to LEARN to be honest.
Now now.. don't try to use that against me and say "your program must not be preparing you"
my point is... the learning never ever ends.