So I'm the husband of a hard-working nursing student who's been at it for the last 18 months at UNLV. All along my wife has done well and passed all of her classes. As a medical graduate myself I know that it can take long hours of studying and working to get by and I've been truly amazed and proud of how hard my wife has worked to get through her degree program.
So why am I here? Because I'm truly angry and frustrated by what has just happened and my wife is too upset even to talk to her family, let alone get on here and vent. Two days prior to her planned graduation, with family all arriving and plans all set, she was told that she has failed one of her courses, by the typical
What truly amazes me is that about 20% of her classmates had this happen. All of these students passed every class up to this point, and then two days prior to graduation they flunked out. This seems like cruel and unusual punishment.... You make people work their tails off for months and then fail them just days prior to graduation! Many of them have children counting on them for support (ie. single mothers) or were in financial hardship just to reach that point, or had long term relationships fall apart due to the hardship of nursing school. All that to fail 2 days prior to graduation. I just cannot believe the lack of compassion of the faculty. Surely it must be possible to "weed-out" those who shouldn't become nurses long before graduation rather than two days prior.... In my schooling it seemed to me that most of the failing occurred within the first few semesters rather than at the end. I suppose the nursing school wouldn't make the same kind of money on tuition that way however...
So what I am wondering is whether or not this is commonplace? Is this something unique to UNLV? Is this something that other people have experienced at this school or elsewhere? Does anyone think this is fair?
I have a real problem with a student failing unexpectedly because I think there should be better communication between faculty and students throughout the semester---indeed, throughout the entire program.
I could not agree more. It should never come as a surprise to someone that they fail a class or are disenrolled from a program.
I also think there is something wrong with the design of a program in which a student can excel in the first 2 or 3 terms and then fail during the 4th. The subject matter does not become that much more difficult and excellent students rarely become poor ones.
Unfortunately, this is VERY common. Having had a previous career as a systems analyst, I could not believe the craziness of nursing school. As you said, there is TREMENDOUS ambiguity in test questions, and then it is rare for instructors to round up if you missed by a few tenths of a percent. It would be one thing if the test questions were essay and it was clear you did not understand the concepts, but when a good portion of the questions are NOT good test questions by the standards in any other field, it is insane. That continues right up to through the NCLEX. I passed with the minimum number of questions, but I walked out of there having NO idea how I did and feeling very cheated that I did not have the opportunity to show what I know and instead was awarded a license on the basis of being able to guess really well! It's a strange system, and basically what you need to do is keep jumping through the hoops (some times the same ones over again) until you are finally through the last hoop. I have been working as a nurse for over a year now, and although I have frustrations about how some things are run, I really do love being a nurse. I wish your wife well. It sounds like she is a very good student. I am sorrry her plans are delayed, but I think she will do well in the long run. Keep encouraging her! She is lucky to have a supportive husband!
unfortunately, this happens every day in nursing school with some students ending up quitting nursing entirely after they’ve failed out. in my opinion, this is a very 'cruel and unusual punishment’. i must say that some instructors have 'pride' in dropping out students, very sad. there is no evidence that those of us with the rn license are better off than those who failed out with less than a point, or better sill, in some school, pass mark is 70% while others are 80%(i’ve even heard of 85%), yes, we cover the same syllabus, and after graduation, we take the same boards, work on the same floors. if your wife has to re-take the course, good for her, let her go for it, even though it seems it would take forever, that’s the best deal she can get rather than quitting. good luck guys.
Your wife should appeal this. If this truly affected 20% of the class, there is something wrong with the instructor and the exam. Instructors are not all-knowing. The nursing faculty/director are not likely to be pleased with this result.
The vast majority of the ones that dropped out, just flat out didn't put the time that was needed to be successful.
There was another fraction that was a victim of circumstance....those that could not quit a full-time job...sometimes, for some students, it's not possible to do both.
When we graduated, there was only one student that ended up failing, that really and truly, gave it everything she had.
I have a real problem with a student failing unexpectedly because I think there should be better communication between faculty and students throughout the semester---indeed, throughout the entire program.
Some faculty are extremely hard-nosed and think students should be weeded out at any point in the program if they can't, for whatever reason, "handle" nursing school. I disagree. As an educator, I want to know why the student is failing---especially if it's a student who has been doing well all throughout the program and then has trouble with the last exam the last semester. I'd want to know if the problem was with the student or if it was with the way I was teaching the course or writing the tests. If the problem is with the student, I'd want to know if there were any life issues or if the reason for failure was that he/she doesn't totally understand a concept. I'd much rather a student know that it's okay to say he/she doesn't know something and ask questions than to pretend he or she does know---and someday put a patient at risk.
I'd also rather see a student fail honestly than cheat to get a passing grade. Which would be the better nurse? I'd take the honest one in a heartbeat over a cheater! Thing is---when there's this kind of pressure on a student---the threat of failing out in the very last semester by a fraction of a percentage or a few points---wouldn't it increase the temptation to cheat?
Another issue here is---what is the real difference between the student who squeaked through a class and passed with, say, 75%, as opposed to the one who failed by half a percentage point? How can anyone realistically say that the student who passed will be a more knowledgeable and capable nurse? Frankly, before deciding to fail a student in his/her last semester, I would want to look at everything---his/her work in previous classes, care plans, clinical competence, even ask him/her what happened this semester to make it so difficult.
And I would look at myself and my own teaching/testing capabilities. I do not believe students should be coddled or spoon-fed their nursing education but, if I have a large percentage of students who have done well academically suddenly failing my class or my exams, it's time I look at what I might be doing wrong. Are my tests worded poorly? Have I spoken over the students' heads in my lectures? Did the reading material and exercises correlate with lecture and clinical or is everything disjointed? Are my assignments relevant or are they bull**** and busywork?
Getting back to life issues impeding student progress through a program---I have had my own life issues so I try to be empathetic with students who are going through rough patches in their lives. However, no good deed goes unrewarded---I had a student my first full-time year of teaching who knew "everything", had a ton of life drama, and was glib and very manipulative. I had no idea I was being played by this student until the middle of the second semester. The experience hurt. Unfortunately, because of that experience, I might be a bit more cautious and hardline myself with the next student who has major life "issues". There is a difference between a life issue or traumatic event being a reason for hitting an academic road block and someone coming up with excuses for his/her failure to learn. When a student has failed six exams or not turned in six assignments, and, each time claim he/she couldn't study because he/she had to attend Grandmother's funeral, it raises faculty suspicions that maybe that student is making excuses. And that's when faculty start getting hard-nosed and ask the students to bring in an obituary notice if they have to attend funerals.
BTW, to the OP---glad your spouse has you for a source of support. This has to be a tough time for both of you but I think your better half will get through this more easily with your help.
Moogie - Can you please come be my teacher?????
To the OP -- I'm at CSN, unfortunately it is how they do it for nursing school. I don't know what got your wife's grades down, but she needs to figure it out before she repeats the class. Sucks, but we don't get choices in this part till we are the nurse educators. I've had people fail a class in second semester due to a death in the family and have the same thing happen in fourth - they had to repeat the entire program over. Not fair, but life ain't.:wink2:
I cannot believe the lack of compassion the faculty have shown in this situation either. Do the rest of the nursing faculty know about this? If so, and they are not suggesting the students challenge it, then a bully is getting away with unethical behaviour. Maybe a petition protesting this teachers unethical behaviour would send a message to the school?
Your wife should appeal this. If this truly affected 20% of the class, there is something wrong with the instructor and the exam. Instructors are not all-knowing. The nursing faculty/director are not likely to be pleased with this result.
ITA! If 20% of the class was doing well academically and failed the last semester unexpectedly, it likely is the result of poor teaching and testing. What were the commonalities? Same course? Same instructor? Was the grade based totally on objective testing or were the grades at least partially subjective, say, on assignments, clinicals or other criteria?
Might also be good to check with graduates of the nursing program to see if this sort of problem occurred in previous classes. Does the school have a track record of this sort of thing happening? Or was this the first class that had such a high failure rate in the final semester?
I went to a very tough and competitive ADN program; my program was one of those in which we were told the first day that only half to two-thirds of the class would actually "make it". However, most who failed or dropped out usually did so within the first two terms. I do not recall any horror stories about anyone failing in the last semester, certainly no stories about anyone who was doing well failing unexpectedly. My program was strict in that anyone who failed a course only had one opportunity to repeat that course. Anyone who failed the course a second time (or who failed two or more science courses, which we took concurrently) was dropped from the program. I recall a few people dropping out of my BSN program but again, not anyone who failed unexpectedly.
Seriously, I hope the OP's wife and her classmates check into this matter because it just doesn't seem right. Students do have rights and I should hope someone on the faculty is advocating for the students.
You know, if I was the instructor who flunked out 20% of the graduating class, I would certainly want to know what I was doing wrong in teaching and/or testing. Unfortunately, there are some schools of nursing that give as little feedback to their faculty as they do to their students.
I have to agree with the group that yes this is common. I have one more semester left for RN school and I do not consider myself home free yet. Our school is great in that you know exactly how may points you need to pass the class. It is cummulative, so you know going into the final what you need to pass. It usually isn't a surprise if you fail.
Please update us whether or not your wife can repeat her class. Also, I believe that she might qualify for Excelsior if she has finished over 50% of her nursing classes - just thought.
You sound like a great husband! Believe me, I could have never made it this far without the support of mine. He has been that push when I wanted to give it up - both LPN and RN school.
Madnurse2B and Pagandeva2000---thanks for your kind words. :imbar When I taught a couple of years ago, I tried to advocate for my students. A few times my efforts put me at odds with senior faculty. I still have my lumps and bumps from the undergraduate admission and progression committee! Seriously, I was not able to have much impact because I was a clinical instructor, BSN, working on my master's, but I was at the very bottom of the food chain at that particular school of nursing. I hope an advanced degree (planning to start on a PhD program in the spring) will give me enough credibility (and, okay, confidence) as an educator to make positive changes in whatever nursing program hires me when I finally finish school.
As Jean36 pointed out, there are some nursing instructors who seem to take pride in the numbers of students they fail each term. I honestly don't understand that. It doesn't make anyone a better instructor to be able to flunk out a bunch of students. I suspect there are a few instructors whose egos are fragile and who like to take students down a few notches in order to make themselves look good by contrast. If the instructor is confident in him/herself, why should he/she be threatened in ay way by a student?
I remember one obnoxious instructor in my ADN program. At the beginning of the term, she said she did "not give A's". Okay, fine, so we all worked harder than people in the other clinical groups and got "Bs" while they easily got "A"s. Even worse, after she told us this,, she said she did make one exception, that being a student who got through our program with a 4.0 GPA. Of course she got an "A" but other students in the class worked hard and deserved to receive A's as well/ :angryfire
Seriously, I was not able to have much impact because I was a clinical instructor, BSN, working on my master's, but I was at the very bottom of the food chain at that particular school of nursing. I hope an advanced degree (planning to start on a PhD program in the spring) will give me enough credibility (and, okay, confidence) as an educator to make positive changes in whatever nursing program hires me when I finally finish school.
Music in My Heart
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I also think there is something wrong with the design of a program in which a student can excel in the first 2 or 3 terms and then fail during the 4th. The subject matter does not become that much more difficult and excellent students rarely become poor ones.