Hurricane Irma: Are per diem nurses USUALLY required to work during a hurricane/disaster?

[justSara]

Hey guys!

I'm not a nurse, but I am part of the nursing staff as a PCA. I have only been working in a hospital for a year, so I'm not sure what is usual or custom.

As the title suggests, I am located in South Florida and hurricane Irma may clobber us this weekend. If it is still a category 4 or 5 hurricane by Friday morning I have decided to evacuate my loved ones out of state. However, the hospital I work for is telling ALL per diem workers that we are REQUIRED to come to the hospital to work during the hurricane lock down.

So my question is, is that usual for a hospital? To require the PER DIEM employees to come in? There was a hurricane list made up in advance saying which full time workers would have to come in and who would be part of the "after" team, but I was never aware that per diem workers needed to as well.

I just wanted to know if my director/superiors are pulling one over on me by telling my it's required when it actually may not be what usually happens. My hospital has been known to lie to employees when it suits them.

Sorry for the long post, thank you for any answers in advance.

[DowntheRiver]

Any place that I have worked has not mandated PRN employees only PT+ and FT employees.

I am in Central Florida and while our impact most likely will not be as severe as yours we are bracing ourselves for a CAT 3 or 4 hurricane. Both my husband and I are native Floridians; he is native to Miami, and almost died in Hurricane Andrew in 1992 because the roof collapsed on his head. With this in mind I tell you to do what is best for your family. Hurricanes are no joke, and I wish the best for you and your family. Whatever decision you make just please be safe!

[brownbook]

The Center for Medicare and Medicaid Service...CMS.gov mandates national emergency preparedness requirements for Medicare and Medicaid participating providers. (Which is just about every hospital.) The ? new ? plan and requirements don't go into effect until Nov. 16 2017, but I am sure all hospitals have to have had some emergency plan in place even before this latest requirement.

It is the hospitals responsibility to inform all staff of the plan on at least a yearly schedule. You would think they would put up reminders every year before hurricane season. It is probable or possible that per diem staff get "overlooked" on being in serviced on hospital policies. But it is still the hospital's responsibility.

[Wuzzie]

My toddler is a catastrophic, natural disaster and I am his caretaker.

Roger that. His name doesn't happen to be Harvey?

[nelly85]

Hi , read the contract you signed for the per down job. If it does not mention hurricane coverage then you shouldn't be called in to work. I work in south Florida as well and am per dorm. I called Human Resources to verify that I did not have to come in because it is not part of my contract. The hospital will tell you that you are required to come in and that they will fire you but if you get confirmation from hr that you don't have to contractually work hurricanes administration can't fire you. My administrators told me the same thing they told you and hr stepped in and told them that I am not obligated to work hurricanes. I don't have benefits from the hospital, why should I go into work? I could be injured going to or from work , then I would be responsible for the bill.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Yes because it's all hands on deck in a disaster. Why would you take a nursing job of any sort and not be aware if there were a catastrophe, you would be needed to help out?

I spent 14 years' perdiem and accepted this would probably come to pass at some point. And we were military ( well my husband was) so we had to make a plan to send the kids to grandparents in such situations. We both were aware that if such things happened, we would be both needed in our occupations in a true emergency.

It's not about benefitted positions, (or not) but helping people during and in the wake of what will be an epic storm. PRN should not be exempt. ALL nurses have loved ones and homes they might stand to lose here. Everyone has a human stake in this.

This is not a "short handed" weekend coming, but a true human catastrophe. They need every able body they have to work/help out.

This is why disaster preparedness and procedure and expectations of staff during emergencies should be discussed at every orientation and every year after that. None of us is immune to a natural disaster.

Seems we have this discussion all the time here ( at least once or twice a year, "But I CAN'T WORK"...."not me").

Whether it's a blizzard, flood, tornado, what-not. We chose this profession, not the other way around.

[JKL33]

I'm not trying to be argumentative but are you saying that full-time workers (not already scheduled to work) don't have alternate commitments? Why should they be expected to go in and per diem workers not be?

It's not a matter of non-equal treatment, it's just the fact that the nature of the per diem position is such that it is simply a bare-bones, day-to-day employment relationship. No benefits, no seniority, no years of service. Other than appropriate certifications and such, the requirements of per diems are usually far fewer...kinda just the way it works. It's the same reason that PD positions might not include the same holiday and weekend requirements that FT/PT employees agree to.

Full-timers are expected to go in because when they signed their position it typically includes requirements such as what we're talking about. Per diem positions usually (or often enough) do not include such stipulations...along with the good things that also aren't included. Asking why PDs don't have to report for disaster duty but FTs do, is kinda the same as a PD asking "why does she earn PTO and I don't?"

That said, these types of situations are a great opportunity to offer to do more than what one agreed to, if there is any way one is able to do it.

HTH

[Wuzzie]

It's not a matter of non-equal treatment, it's just the fact that the nature of the per diem position is such that it is simply a bare-bones, day-to-day employment relationship. No benefits, no seniority, no years of service. Other than appropriate certifications and such, the requirements of per diems are usually far fewer...kinda just the way it works. It's the same reason that PD positions might not include the same holiday and weekend requirements that FT/PT employees agree to.

Full-timers are expected to go in because when they signed their position it typically includes requirements such as what we're talking about. Per diem positions usually (or often enough) do not include such stipulations...along with the good things that also aren't included. Asking why PDs don't have to report for disaster duty but FTs do, is kinda the same as a PD asking "why does she earn PTO and I don't?"

That said, these types of situations are a great opportunity to offer to do more than what one agreed to, if there is any way one is able to do it.

HTH

I've been around for a very long time so I really do understand the PD concept but using the excuse that PD employees have alternate commitments such as families is a ridiculous argument for why they feel they shouldn't be considered as part of the staff during an emergency. Their alternate commitments aren't any more important than full time employers. It just rubbed me the wrong way the same as the people who think that all the single people should be required to work during catastrophes because they don't have kids. Ultimately it boils down to what your facility policy states but I still tend to agree with another poster who said it's all hands on deck when it comes to a looming disaster like this.

[SmilingBluEyes]

This isn't about PTO or other such things. This is an emergency. As I said, I was perdiem. I knew that if an earthquake or tsunami were to hit and I were able to make it in to help, it was a given. It's not a run-of-the-mill shorthanded unit here, but a catastrophe. And one that will take a lot of time and man-hours to handle.

Again, I see the need here for hospitals and other medical providers to discuss disaster planning not just for work but for our families and what we would do in such cases. It's impossible to have a perfect plan but ANY plan is better than none at all.

[SmilingBluEyes]

I've been around for a very long time so I really do understand the PD concept but using the excuse that PD employees have alternate commitments such as families is a ridiculous argument for why they feel they shouldn't be considered as part of the staff during an emergency. Their alternate commitments aren't any more important than full time employers. It just rubbed me the wrong way the same as the people who think that all the single people should be required to work during catastrophes because they don't have kids. Ultimately it boils down to what your facility policy states but I still tend to agree with another poster who said it's all hands on deck when it comes to a looming disaster like this.

YES! This. It really rubs me the wrong way, too, that ANY ONE nurse's family or commitments are more important than another's regardless of their employment status. WHO will relieve the exhausted full/part-timers who work 24 hours' straight after all?

[Sour Lemon]

I've been around for a very long time so I really do understand the PD concept but using the excuse that PD employees have alternate commitments such as families is a ridiculous argument for why they feel they shouldn't be considered as part of the staff during an emergency. Their alternate commitments aren't any more important than full time employers. It just rubbed me the wrong way the same as the people who think that all the single people should be required to work during catastrophes because they don't have kids. Ultimately it boils down to what your facility policy states but I still tend to agree with another poster who said it's all hands on deck when it comes to a looming disaster like this.

I think you (along with others) might be viewing this as a moral issue more than an employment issue.

[JKL33]

I understand.

[Wuzzie]

I think you (along with others) might be viewing this as a moral issue more than an employment issue.

Quite possibly, but sometimes I think the moral outweighs the other.