So about a month ago I came here looking for advice about being suspended for a co-sign waste discrepancy. I just got an email from HR saying they need to meet with me this is the email
i copied the email...
“As you were informed by your manager, ***** **** on Date deleted..., HR, Management and Pharmacy are conducting an investigation into your medication handling and administration practices. We need to meet with you in connection with the investigation. Please contact me at your earliest convenience. Failure to contact me or otherwise cooperate with the investigation will result in the termination of your employment. If you’re employment is terminated, we will be obligated to report you to the State of Michigan Licensing Bureau.”
this happened a month ago, I’m contingent so I started looking for work right away. I secured a job. I feel like this is a trap and I was under the impression they are required to the state anyways. I talked to a lawyer when this all went down and he said, hospitals usually don’t let lawyers attend internal meetings.
In this case if there was a pattern of missing narcotics (wasted narcotics with no co-sign) over a long period of time, what does the employer report? That they fired the employee over discrepancy? That they suspect due to the pattern is was malicious?
Again, with my state they are required to report everything they can...
I went to the meeting just so it would show the BON I was not ignoring the allegations. I did sign a termination letter but in the box for me to write my personal statement I wrote “ I do not agree with their above statement”. They wanted me to admit I was stealing and I didn’t. I am starting my new job next week and can not even be excited because I know that I’ll be getting a letter/phone call from their investigator.
I don’t think there is any actual proof of anything here except for sloppy bookkeeping. How could they get a nurse who apparently co-signed to later say that she witnessed nothing? If this was diversion why did it take so long to track? If it was because of a sloppy and antiquated way of keeping track of narcortics why should we trust the results of that broken system now? I think that at least in part this is the employers way of diverting blame for not upgrading their system. Where I work if one controlled meds waste is not co-signed the nurse knows about it in a day or so and the situation is addressed. This went on for months??? How is that possible if you have reliable record keeping? If the employer doesn’t have that who really knows what happened?
I don’t think there is any actual proof of anything here except for sloppy bookkeeping. How could they get a nurse who apparently co-signed to later say that she witnessed nothing? If this was diversion why did it take so long to track? If it was because of a sloppy and antiquated way of keeping track of narcortics why should we trust the results of that broken system now? I think that at least in part this is the employers way of diverting blame for not upgrading their system. Where I work if one controlled meds waste is not co-signed the nurse knows about it in a day or so and the situation is addressed. This went on for months??? How is that possible if you have reliable record keeping? If the employer doesn’t have that who really knows what happened?
Completely agree with you. It's very possible a case like this could be thrown out.
I don’t think there is any actual proof of anything here except for sloppy bookkeeping. How could they get a nurse who apparently co-signed to later say that she witnessed nothing? If this was diversion why did it take so long to track? If it was because of a sloppy and antiquated way of keeping track of narcortics why should we trust the results of that broken system now? I think that at least in part this is the employers way of diverting blame for not upgrading their system. Where I work if one controlled meds waste is not co-signed the nurse knows about it in a day or so and the situation is addressed. This went on for months??? How is that possible if you have reliable record keeping? If the employer doesn’t have that who really knows what happened?
It’s been a problem for a while, drugs taken and not signed out until the end of the shift when we have to count and have to track down nurses to see who forgot to sign it out. Counts way off and just balanced like they weren’t missing. People taking home keys, it’s been brought to management’s attention nothing was done. Now this happens with my situation and when I quit they said I stole a key??? Seriously? What good would a key do for me if I quit.
Yeah this is an ancient nurse tradition right next to eating the young. Find a scapegoat and blame everything on them. It’s amoral and complete BS but real as gravity
Let's not forget that the system keeps getting harder for nurses and more ripe for error. So when I first started as an ICU nurse it was a matter of "signing in the Pixus and getting the drug" and getting a witness to waste if necessary. Then they added certain bins that needed a "key" which had to be returned before leaving the Pixus. Now we have added "bedside narcotic lockboxes" along with special "IV tubing" that is supposed to be used for drugs like Ativan, propofol, and fentanyl along with separate IV pole lockbox keys that also have to be returned. Then they keep bumping up our ratios meaning that it is progressively harder to find a "waste witness" (since there are fewer nurses and everyone is so freaking busy) and on top of all that we also have to have witness now to pull insulin. It's bad enough that all of this probably takes an extra 15 minutes per shift (min) from patient care for each nurse, but on top of that when the inevitable "mistakes" are made they want to crucify people who are somehow not going insane enduring their inane systems. God bless the nurses who endure this they have the patience of Job. Personally, the whole thing makes me want to "go Hulk" on management and just smash things until they come and take me away. It's so bad that although I used to be something of a "free market Libertarian" I'm ready to support someone like Sander's and just let him nationalize the whole system. Let management have to deal with a government "VA style" union and much less of this "blame the nurse" nonsense would occur. Yes, there would be many, many downsides, but the abuse and exploitation of RN's (especially in states like Florida where I just left) would at least be greatly reduced. Makes me think of a song by Mutabaruka "Any Which Way...Freedom"
Most nurses just want to do the best job we can for our patients and not feel like we are under some sort of "microscope" or perverted game that just keeps making the job harder, and harder. These management types who have no empathy are bad enough, but when they go the "extra mile" to effective persecution they cross some sort of line for which there should be profound consequences.
I don’t think there is any actual proof of anything here except for sloppy bookkeeping. How could they get a nurse who apparently co-signed to later say that she witnessed nothing? If this was diversion why did it take so long to track? If it was because of a sloppy and antiquated way of keeping track of narcortics why should we trust the results of that broken system now? I think that at least in part this is the employers way of diverting blame for not upgrading their system. Where I work if one controlled meds waste is not co-signed the nurse knows about it in a day or so and the situation is addressed. This went on for months??? How is that possible if you have reliable record keeping? If the employer doesn’t have that who really knows what happened?
This exactly. I think if they do/have contacted the BON all they're doing is causing themselves a lot of headache. I know I'd be looking over my shoulder as well, but keep your chin up, try to enjoy that new job! ?
Also getting a serum and hair drug test now may be worthwhile to demonstrate you were not using if your attorney agrees.
I took a follicle test per the advice of the lawyer. It’s negative. Not sure it that’s going to help but it’s validation I was not under the influence.
You could go as far as asking your attorney if a "forensic audit" to help establish that you were not selling any drugs would be in your benefit. However, that is probably something that would cost more than a few hundred (like the drug tests) so I probably wouldn't go that far unless I felt I had a real problem. I would actually consider (if they did report you to the BON) filing wrongful dismissal/libel against the hospital. True, it may be an "employment at will" state. But to unfairly dismiss you in a manner that suggests license threatening, wrong doing (when they had an established pattern of similar behavior from other nurses who were not treated in a like manner) may be a winnable case. Perhaps, just the credible threat of litigation would motivate them to at least characterize your leaving in a less negative manner. Also, if I am an RN and a CNO or nurse manager, and know that my unit(s) have had problems like this for a long time shouldn't "my" license face jeopardy? Maybe if more manager(s) (both nurses and doctors) faced repercussions from these sorts of things they wouldn't be so apt to "fire" people in a way that put their licenses in danger.
chadprepton, ADN
132 Posts
Again, with my state they are required to report everything they can...