How will our new grad Male RN work in L &D?

[ragingmomster]

Our unit has hired a male new grad RN to work in L&D, he starts later this summer. I do not have any experience with this situation because I think it is rare and I only have 2 years experience in L&D.

Some of our nurses are concerned with having this RN do checks without a chaperone and insist that having a male RN will be like a millstone around the neck of the rest of us who are already overworked.

Not one to turn up my nose at something new, I am looking for RNs with experience in working with a male RN in L&D. Better yet, any male RNs willing to share their experiences so that I can share information with my co-workers.

[Psqrd]

Psgrd....have you even considered the FACT that many women are survivors of sexual and physical abuse/assault committed by men?

Not all men abuse women by any means however the vast majority of victims of sexual abuse and assault are female and the perpetrator is more often than not, male. For the women that have experienced this, having a male do a pelvic check on them could be extremely traumatic. They shouldn't have to be forced to go through this because you say that it is "discrimination" to prefer a female provider.

This is not discrimination, it is the pts preference, just as some male pts prefer to be taken care of by male nurses.

Being sensitive to the needs of the patient in situations like this should supersede the nurses personal preferences.

It isn't about the nurse, it's about the pt.

Short response:

Preference was not the issue...read the post

If someone had gone through trauma such as you say then yes I agree with you, and I would understand...but alas that was not the post...refused because of being male..Period!

Discrimination again is yes...based on nothing other than the sex of the provider...not capability...not attitude...not personal trauma...not religous convictions...just being male! Read the post...she said it not me.

I whole heartedly disagree...patients don't get to do anything they want...if a patient wants to have sex with you...then according to your argument...its not about you but the patients "preference".

Now, I am a realist, I know that patients refuse care from staff for a variety of reasons...some make sense, some don't. My point was that I expected better from cohorts.

I was insulted by her comments and I believe that I had a right, no my Preferernce to be insulted.

P2

[Psqrd]

A few months ago we had an elderly gentleman refuse care from two techs (STNA'a). One was Hispanic and one was African-American. Most of the staff were beside themselves with blind rage at this "old racist."

I have had female patients refuse care from me because I am a male, yet they are not seen as "sexist."

Whatever that we decide is "right," let us be consistent. Patients can either choose (refuse, prefer, etc.) based on "personal preference" and not be seen as "bigots" or whatever, or they have to accept care from any qualified individual.

Boy, I sure do like these touchy topics!!!

I've come to realize that these issues when it comes to men and women in the nursing field is often a 2 way street with our direction closed for construction...Men are the minority with the majority calling most of the shots (pun intended!). Often the minority comes out of the mix with the short stick, and are told to "suck it up".

I am a nursing student now but have worked in health care for over 20 years in various capacities...I am not making up what I have seen and experienced. Thanks G for the backup.

P2

[VegRN]

Short response:

Preference was not the issue...read the post

If someone had gone through trauma such as you say then yes I agree with you, and I would understand...but alas that was not the post...refused because of being male..Period!

Discrimination again is yes...based on nothing other than the sex of the provider...not capability...not attitude...not personal trauma...not religous convictions...just being male! Read the post...she said it not me.

I whole heartedly disagree...patients don't get to do anything they want...if a patient wants to have sex with you...then according to your argument...its not about you but the patients "preference".

Now, I am a realist, I know that patients refuse care from staff for a variety of reasons...some make sense, some don't. My point was that I expected better from cohorts.

I was insulted by her comments and I believe that I had a right, no my Preferernce to be insulted.

P2

Well, pts should not be required to disclose that they are victims of abuse. Their reason they give you probably will be refusing because you are male. You are drastically underestimating the amount of women that are victims of sexual assault and abuse.

According to the American college of Family Physicians...."It has been reported that 20 percent of adult women, 15 percent of college-age women and 12 percent of adolescent girls have experienced sexual or physical assault in their lifetimes.2 However, the available data underestimate the magnitude of the problem because many cases of assault and domestic violence are not reported. For instance, the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) estimates that less than 37 percent of rapes are actually reported, with the U.S. Department of Justice estimating that only 26 percent are reported. In 1996, the FBI reported 72 per 100,000 women were raped that year, and the National Victim Center estimated that 1.1 million rapes occurred in 1992."

I certainly hope you will put your own ego aside and consider the reasons that a female pt would not want a male nurse or other male health professional doing a pelvic exam on her.

[FocusRN]

As I stated before no discriminaton, just preference. Let me elaborate.

I PREFER not to have a male nurse of Ob/Gyn because of the following reasons:

-I feel that a female can be more in tune with a females body

-A female who has actually gone through childbirth can actually empathize with what I may be going through (I should mention that I also do not ever want a female ObGyn or L&D Nurse, that has Not gone through childbirth)

-I also prefer that the only male that touches, sees, or examines my genitalia, is the one who put this ring on my finger.

If I were being discriminatory my reason for not having a male OB or RN, would be because "I just don't like men."

For example, like what someone above posted about the pt who did want the African American or Hispanic STNA; they could have had many reasons for that, and those reasons would determine if it was discriminatory. But if most cases like this one could assume, that the pt " Did not like" Hispanics, or African Americans making it discriminatory.

Racism is usually something that is more clearly defined than sexism, as one should be able to see from above. I have valid reasons for my stance, and it is not just because "I don't like men". However when race involved and is the main focus, discrimination is probably the what is in the air.

Wow! not sexual discrimination but as you say, you eliminate them from possible care of you because of them being male...if thats not SEXUAL discrimination I don't know what is.

And yes I do take exception to your comment about this in case it is not evident in my writing, I would expect better from a peer. Yes it your choice but I question why you make this choice and how you make it.

My wife and I had a male nurse assigned to us during the delivery of our daughter and he was fantastic! In fact I had hoped to work with him during my L&D rotation but alas he had relocated to another state. I found him inspirational both as a representitive of my sex and as an outstanding nurse.

The nurse did my wifes checks with no escort but I do realize that policies will vary depending upon the institution.

How can we as a profession expect our patients to look beyond our gender and look just at our qualifications if we as a profession can't do it.

Professionalism, experitise, and espirit de corp is what we need, do we as professionals expect to be taken seriously by our health care teammates while not even treating each other with respect.

Now I know, especially after working in L&D that some patients refuse male nurses and or Physicians to be in the room with a wide variance of reasons from cultural to personal, but when I got attitude from the nurses on the floor and comments that males didn't belong on the floor is exactly what I am talking about.

God bless ALL those that take care of those that need it.

God help those that refuse the care offered.

Psqrd, RN 2 Be.

[Ekklesia]

I'm not disagreeing with you here, but I am going to put your logic to the test.

I PREFER not to have a male nurse of Ob/Gyn because of the following reasons:

I prefer to have someone of my own ethnic background because of the following reasons:

-I feel that a female can be more in tune with a females body

I feel that someone of my own ethnicity can be in tune to my needs.

-A female who has actually gone through childbirth can actually empathize with what I may be going through (I should mention that I also do not ever want a female ObGyn or L&D Nurse, that has Not gone through childbirth)

Someone who is of my ethnicity can empathize with what I may be going through.

If I were being discriminatory my reason for not having a male OB or RN, would be because "I just don't like men."

If I were being discriminatory my reason for not having someone of my own ethnicity as an RN, would be because "I just don't like people of other ethnicities."

However when race involved and is the main focus, discrimination is probably the what is in the air.

I understand what you're saying, but we need to try and understand the big picture and all of the implications. You have your reasons for not wanting a male RN in L&D and you are OK with that...you have justified it.

However, in my scenario, you say that "it's probably racism."

Personally, I think you should have the right to choose (refuse) your healthcare provider, and you shouldn't have to give anyone one single reason.

My point is that it should be consistent.

Great topic!

[KellNY, RN]

Roy,

You being my (male) nurse in the ER for a broken bone, s/p a lap chole, or in IR to load me up with contrast, awesome, excellent, cool beans.

But you as my (male) RN for a pelvic exam? Sorry, but no.

I was a victim of sexual assault and would have a very hard time dealing with that, especially during the vulnerable state of labor. If it were an emergency, I guess I'd deal...but it would make it much harder.

I am equally discriminatory () with male MDs as far as my lady parts goes, if that helps at all. But my primary care doctor is a male, and about half the ER RNs I've encountered were male, and that's fine with me. Which is why I hesitate to truly lable this discrimination.

[Belinda-wales, RN]

Our unit has hired a male new grad RN to work in L&D, he starts later this summer. I do not have any experience with this situation because I think it is rare and I only have 2 years experience in L&D.

Some of our nurses are concerned with having this RN do checks without a chaperone and insist that having a male RN will be like a millstone around the neck of the rest of us who are already overworked.

Ragingmonster

If our hospital is like ours we have the choice of new grads wanting to work in L&D - guess someone somewhere saw qualities in this nurse and managed to see past his gender I hope the poor guy has the skin of an elephant as your co works have already written him off!

My self I would not care what gender,race,age or religion as long thay were highly trained professions who could do there job with skill and compassion.

As fo choice patents do have choice but limitations- are we going to allow patients refusing a nurse because

they dont like the look of them?- this is rediculous and unfair!

[Dayray, RN]

blah blah blah .... same old arguments used as a cover up for pure discrimination... im sure more are to follow as well.

I am a male L&D nurse, I use my judgment, if I dont feel comfortable alone I ask for a person to step in. I have and will continue to do this. I have done a fair amount alone and have asked for company when i feel that the patient is scetchy.

Doctors take an escort in the room becuse of an AMA guideline that says that ALL MD's need an escort during these types of things, not specifcaly male and not nurses. nurses do not fall into AMA guidelines. also many women doctors ask for an escort but many choose to ignor the guidline.

If I am ever told that I need an escort to do my job I will ask for it in wrighting and go strait to a lawyer.

As for all the people who responded to this post with, "I will never have a male rn ...blah blah preferance" umm the Op wasnt even about "you" as a patient and your reaction clearly demonstraits the crap that this poor new grad will endure from other nurses....sigh I am So so tierd of you, 6 years never a patient complaient but you people and others like you seriously make me wish I didnt like OB and if I ever leave it will be becuse of YOU and not patients

[FocusRN]

Interesting , and it could be plausible, if the health probelm was related to ethnicity. Let's say sickle cell, or another health problem usually tied to a certain ethnicity. But if the health problem isn't isolated to certain groups of people, it is most likely discrimination.

Patients do have the right to choose ( or refuse) their healthcare providers. In that respect the reasoning for not wanting a certain person to care for them is fine, but if it is soley based on discrimination IT IS WRONG. Although it is true that is MORALLY wrong, but people feel the way they feel,andthatno one can change.

I, as woman from African American AND Hispanic decent, couldn't care less if a patient didn't want me to care for them for ANY reason. A patient has a right to choose, and if I personally am not their cup of tea, so be it. It won't make me sweat, or leave me wondering why. Let's all remember life is too short to sweat the small stuff.

With that said if discrimination is a deciding factor in employment ,benefits, income, or services; that is another matter entirely.

I'm not disagreeing with you here, but I am going to put your logic to the test.

I prefer to have someone of my own ethnic background because of the following reasons:

I feel that someone of my own ethnicity can be in tune to my needs.

Someone who is of my ethnicity can empathize with what I may be going through.

If I were being discriminatory my reason for not having someone of my own ethnicity as an RN, would be because "I just don't like people of other ethnicities."

I understand what you're saying, but we need to try and understand the big picture and all of the implications. You have your reasons for not wanting a male RN in L&D and you are OK with that...you have justified it.

However, in my scenario, you say that "it's probably racism."

Personally, I think you should have the right to choose (refuse) your healthcare provider, and you shouldn't have to give anyone one single reason.

My point is that it should be consistent.

Great topic!

[Dayray, RN]

I’m sorry forgot to answer the OP , who does seem to be asking an honest question.

Tell your new grad to use his judgment. Most of the time the patient has family around but in those rare cases where he is forced into a situation where he need to make this decision he simply needs to use common sense. If the patient has been making inappropriate comments threw out the day or if its a patient that looks like she thinks your going to do something awful to her or if she is mentally incapacitated and unpredictable have someone in the room with you. However if this a patient that he has a good nurse/ patient relationship with and doesn’t act afraid of him at all then don’t go and ask someone else to come in.....

It is very rare that I ask for an escort, sure it's risk, but honestly what could the patient actually make up that is more invasive then a normal vag exam? Seriously just about anything they can fathom is actually part of an OB nurses job.

Even a female escort is just another pair of eyes that don’t need to be there and will actually be much more intrusive then helpful to a patient that isn’t concerned about their nurses gender

If you truly want to support this new grad, don’t even mention his gender, I promise you he is aware of it and I promise you he agonizes over what other people think of him and is terrified of you. Just in telling his friends and family what he is going to do I bet you he has already been shamed, laughed at and made fun of. If he is there after all of that he must really and truly want to be there.

Don’t ask him why he wants to be an OB nurse, it’s probably the same reason you do.

People make this so complicated, don't internalize the question of male OB nurses. In other words don’t think about yourself with a male Ob nurse. Watch and see the reactions of the patients then make up your mind, I think you will be surprised at what you learn.

Also be carfule of the things you say, other nurses and patients probably aren’t sure what to think. It’s a situation many have not encountered b4. Let them draw their own conclusions don't assume they are going to be uncomfortable because you can easily implant and idea like that in their head. If he is kind and respectful patients really are not going to think its all that weird

[KellNY, RN]

blah blah blah .... same old arguments used as a cover up for pure discrimination... im sure more are to follow as well.

Wow. Sorry that my sexual assault is so blah blah blah to you.

I'm sure you're a very compassionate OB RN.

[FocusRN]

If you would or wouldn't ever let someone run you from a field that you like, I couldn't care less, but I know that I wouldn't.

As I said, I don't discriminate based on gender, race ,culture, or religion. In my personal opinion those are stupid things to discriminate against. I would be quick (and always am) to discriminate based upon attitude. Otherwise I make my provider choices by PREFERENCE.

And just in case anyone was wondering, in addition to me preferring a female OB or Nurse over a male, I also PREFER a doc or a nurse that doesn't have bad breath, BO, or smokes.

And if a patient ever asks for an escort while you are caring for, them, and you are told you need one, whether you get it in writing or not, elaborate on what a lawyer would do, and who that would scare?

A lawyer and judge would tell you the same thing that I have been saying, a patient has the right to choose, and be involved in the planning and implementation of THEIR care (didn't we learn this in Nursing Fundamentals). And if their choice to have someone else in the room offends you, it essentially means nothing to anyone but YOU, and that is the only person it matters to, if you let it.

I would suggest you get a tougher skin, and not care if someone asks or says that you need an escort with a pt, or if a pt does not want you to care for them for any reason. I mean really who cares? I know I don't, b/c it's not going to cut my paycheck one bit.

I learned when I was a CNA, that you can't let patients, policies, or administration get to you. I refuse to let my JOB create baggage. I do have a life to live.

blah blah blah .... same old arguments used as a cover up for pure discrimination... im sure more are to follow as well.

I am a male L&D nurse, I use my judgment, if I dont feel comfortable alone I ask for a person to step in. I have and will continue to do this. I have done a fair amount alone and have asked for company when i feel that the patient is scetchy.

Doctors take an escort in the room becuse of an AMA guideline that says that ALL MD's need an escort during these types of things, not specifcaly male and not nurses. nurses do not fall into AMA guidelines. also many women doctors ask for an escort but many choose to ignor the guidline.

If I am ever told that I need an escort to do my job I will ask for it in wrighting and go strait to a lawyer.

As for all the people who responded to this post with, "I will never have a male rn ...blah blah preferance" umm the Op wasnt even about "you" as a patient and your reaction clearly demonstraits the crap that this poor new grad will endure from other nurses....sigh I am So so tierd of you, 6 years never a patient complaient but you people and others like you seriously make me wish I didnt like OB and if I ever leave it will be becuse of YOU and not patients