Thread inspired by this one: https://allnurses.com/nursing-news/nursing-programs-asked-597381.html In addition, I am interested in becoming a nurse educator in an academic setting further on in my career, and I will most likely want to (or have to) sit on an acceptance committee.
One of the concerns brought up in the thread was the variance in admission requirements.
When I was researching brick and mortar schools in my area more than two years ago, the admission requirements varied greatly. For the most part, ADN programs required fewer pre-reqs than the BSN programs, the ADN programs often had residency requirements because they are locally funded, one ADN program required the CNA prior to applying but none of the BSN programs did, all programs had minimum academic competency tests (COMPASS or TEAS), some required letters of recommendation in varying numbers, etc.
What do you suggest for minimum admission standards and why? This is not a question about minimum education for entry to practice; this is a question about minimum admission standards for any prelicensure program, excluding LPN-to-RN programs.
Another thought: The NCLEX-RN is a national test. Should there be national admission standards to nursing education also? Each state has governance over the curriculum requirements for the schools in its jurisdiction, but the states do not currently have requirements for admissions, so this is a nonjurisdictional area for consideration.
This is interesting to me as I am currently in the process of applying to several nursing schools. My first choice requires the standardized nursing school entrance exam first, and if you pass, they invite you to apply. This is frustrating to me as I'd rather see the standardized test as a part of the whole picture. I've never been good at standardized tests, yet I have a 3.9 GPA from my BS degree. If I don't do well enough on the PSB test, they won't ever see my previous educational success....which I think is a much better indicator of my future educational success than a standardized test that is testing me on chemistry I haven't had since high school 20+ years ago.
I wouldn't mind the standardized tests as long as they were being used as part of the whole picture. But I'd actually rather see them not required at all. Many schools have gotten rid of the GRE's because they have been shown to not necessarily be an exact predictor of future academic success.
The two other schools I am applying to also require the standardized tests but after they see your other qualifications. All three require essays, letters of rec, transcripts, etc...
I think GPA in previous educational endeavors, an essay and an in person interview would be sufficient in determining a candidates potential for success in nursing school.
As for me, I'm studying up on TEST TAKING...not necessarily the content (though some of that too)...and I feel very stressed and afraid about taking this entrance test even though I already know that I can handle the educational requirements...but the nursing school won't know it unless I can tell them that sun:mercury::sun:Venus (and yes, that's an actual example from my practice test).
So I can't say that people should have to jump through all these hoops and get perfect GPA's and letters of recommendations. I would have had no one to give me a recommendation. I had been an at home mom for years.[\QUOTE]
I am having the same problem right now. I've been a stay at home mom for 10+ years and they want recs from people who know me professionally or as a teacher. I'm trying to get some from people at my volunteer positions, but they are all good friends...which my recs are NOT supposed to be. Really has me in a bind. I am sure people lie in their references often as it would be easy to do so, but I am determined to find real references!
1. take entrance test (covers writing, sentence skills, math, etc.) and make specific minimum scores (college level competency)
2. Fill out application and answer attached questions (why you want to be a nurse, how a nurse has impacted your life, etc.)
(after acceptance)
3. complete all immunization requirements and complete physical
4. Complete a 1 week MANDATORY orientation with mock lectures, skills check offs, etc.
(the orientation already weeded out a few people who didn't realize the time/money/responsibilities of nursing school)
I disagree with the previous medical experience BECAUSE have none yet I have nurses in my family who have made the expectations and difficulty of school/ patient care VERY clear. under your system i would have never been accepted.
Nursing degrees are more similar to medicine, pharmacy, and law than the other majors you mentioned because the skills and knowledge needed to practice as a nurse are very specific.
If the fact that medicine, law, and pharmacy are graduate programs make the difference to you, take a look at admission requirements to the College of Education or College of Fine Arts for four-year universities. Those who want to be teachers or artists are often asked to undergo more scrutiny for admission than those who declare other majors.
I know that nursing is similar but none of these are BSN degrees. They are professional degrees that deliver the doctor of X. The others are Bachelors which is the same entry level as the Registered nurse. If you notice that to get into graduate nursing, there's interviews and references which i believe is adequate.
Unless nursing becomes a pre-nursing like the others, they should make their requirements like all other Bachelors degree (thats my point)
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
1. Basic entrance exams like are currently being administered.
2. Some sort of psychological exam to show ability to multitask and deal with nursing demands.
3. Interviews. A lot of people test well but would make lousy nurses.
4. Multiple references from previous employers, and others who can describe what the applicant's work ethic is and why he might be good in patient care.
I'd also give extra credit for people in direct patient care now. Also for customer service jobs, e.g. waitress, flight attendant etc. I know I'm going to be flamed for this but I wouldn't give extra credit for military service unless in some sort of patient care role, sorry but no relationship to nursing requirrements.
Also to be considered would be prior work history or school attendance. No sense in training somebody with poor work ethic. I don't think I'd stress writing too much except that the applicant has to be able to string words into a sentence and communicate, but that would come out at the interview.
I was with you until this last part, I ditched most my freshman and sophomore year of high school and then dropped out for 1.5 years.( still made b's during that time so my step-mom made one class not pass me to teach me a lesson lol ) I still managed to graduate by 18 and only a year late. (would have been 17 originally) and did so with a baby (at 16). So if they went off my HS attendance i would have been screwed. Also I was a lot different at 15 and 16 then now. Shoot even at 20. They would have had a hard time getting work attendance since I was an at home mom for so long without working. My most recent job would have been years prior still in which even with a high risk pregnancy and put on bed rest I only missed one day. That was because I passed out in The shower and had to to go to the doctor. Even when I got in a car accident during a blizzard my FIRST call was to my employer to tell them I would be late and next call was to the police. I was pregnant then too. So I have a very good work ethic but I wouldn't have been able to prove it. The last company I worked for the years prior o nursing school shut down.
So some of these requirements in a lot of posts just wouldn't be realistic for non traditional students.
should there be national admission standards to nursing education also? no.
what do you suggest for minimum admission standards and why? great variation from school to school because there is no way to be fair to all deserving applicants and this allows the greatest number of deserving applicants the chance of acceptance somewhere. it also allows a bit of de facto tailoring of programs to the strengths and weaknesses of their students as a whole. it also allows change more easily - both to follow cultural change and to test out new ideas on a small scale.
it is hard on those who don't know where they want to go to school, on the other hand it isn't necessarily a bad thing to favor those who have positioned themselves well. i say that without censorship of the former.
Specializes in ED, Telemetry,Hospice, ICU, Supervisor.
In summary, factors that will be useful in predicting the likelihood of an individual applicant's completion of program and passing of NCLEX are the principle relevant factors that should be considered.
Category 1: Currently Holding a License to practice some kind of DIRECT PATIENT CARE:CNA/LVN/EMT/RESPIRATORY TECH are examples
Unnecessarily discriminatory and only vaguely related. What about the guy with the helicopter mechanic's liscense? The woman with the teaching liscense?
Category 2: Do they currently hold a position where they use their license (above) with atleast 1 year of experience.
Same deal
Category 3: Do they hold some type of post high school degree such as AD/AS, BS/BA, MS, PHD examples
Same unrelatedness
- Points are given to those who are already practicing in the medical field. Their experience with direct patient care is taken into account. The jump from LVN duties to RN duties are closely related. The jump from Helicopter Pilot work to RN work however is greater.
- There are people that have an active LVN license that upon graduation could not land a job. They then find work but not as an LVN. Therefore they have no direct patient care, although they are licensed. Since they lack the actual experience but not the education they will get points but not full.
- Advanced education in college/university usually means you have developed more critical thinking skills compared to those straight out of high school. Critical thinking is important when having to deal with possible drug interactions and patients lab results.
Specializes in ED, Telemetry,Hospice, ICU, Supervisor.
In summary, factors that will be useful in predicting the likelihood of an individual applicant's completion of program and passing of NCLEX are the principle relevant factors that should be considered.
Category 5: TEAS test Version 5 Score
Not used in all states
Category 6: Other Languages
Irrelevant. This is America. We speak english here.
- True the TEAS test Version 5 is not used in all states. Its just one of many general exams that can be used to gauge general knowledge.
- This is America, with the Latino population rising faster than most other populations. Given the change in demographics it would be very helpful if a person is able to communicate to their patients effectively and efficiently. I cannot tell my patient hey go learn English or else... My personal belief on what language they should speak in our country should not be a factor. The educators, naturalization personnel, politicians etc should be the ones answering the question as to why they lack sufficient English skills.
Specializes in ED, Telemetry,Hospice, ICU, Supervisor.
In summary, factors that will be useful in predicting the likelihood of an individual applicant's completion of program and passing of NCLEX are the principle relevant factors that should be considered.
Category 7: Veteran, Single Parent, Poor, Disabled, Need to Work
Social Engineering is discriminatory. Giving points on such basis is unfair to other competitors and results in lower quality nurses.
- There are actually other categories other than the ones above. Refugee status, First Generation to Attend College, Difficult Personal Family Circumstances are just a few. This section came out of my schools criteria along with how to document it. Those working full time such as an LVN or Helicopter Pilot can get points here if they need to work while attending the program (Need to Work). I liked this criteria so I kept it, simple as that.
Specializes in ED, Telemetry,Hospice, ICU, Supervisor.
In summary, factors that will be useful in predicting the likelihood of an individual applicant's completion of program and passing of NCLEX are the principle relevant factors that should be considered.
How do you qualify language competency? Accept someone's word that they are a competent speaker? Accept only evidence of 2 years worth of passing grades from people who can't rememberhow to speak the language at all? Do you give points for Latin? (I had 4 years)
- The Foreign Language Criteria is defined as having 4 semesters of the SAME language from college/University level foreign language course. So four semesters of Spanish 1, Chinese 1, Arabic 1 and Russian 1 will not cut it. The second way you can score points in foreign language is if you fill out a form on the school site, it asks you for witnesses that have spoken to you and contact information.
Specializes in ED, Telemetry,Hospice, ICU, Supervisor.
In summary, factors that will be useful in predicting the likelihood of an individual applicant's completion of program and passing of NCLEX are the principle relevant factors that should be considered.
Why not high school, or dual language in childhood home?, or you have taken some fluency exam Jim Crow before you are done.
- High school foreign language courses are graded easier than college/university level courses. College/University level courses place more emphasis on being able to hold random conversations with fluent speakers and being able to comprehend. The post above this should be helpful.
Specializes in ED, Telemetry,Hospice, ICU, Supervisor.
In summary, factors that will be useful in predicting the likelihood of an individual applicant's completion of program and passing of NCLEX are the principle relevant factors that should be considered.
Might be useful in adding an age factor. typically, adult students (up to a certain age) have higher pass rates than traditional students. A statistical analysis demonstrating such statistical correlation could validate adoption of such favorable factoring. Gender factoring might also be explored for reality's sake, but if you're gonna dump on a bunch of social engineering I want 50 points for my gonads as a minority student.
- Most of the students in my group are past 22 many are over 40. Perhaps because they take school much more seriously than than their younger counterparts.
- Category 7 the one you call Social Engineering only gets you a max possible 2.5 points. Ill will explain how points are given out once I have answered all your concerns.
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jlpsu
144 Posts
This is interesting to me as I am currently in the process of applying to several nursing schools. My first choice requires the standardized nursing school entrance exam first, and if you pass, they invite you to apply. This is frustrating to me as I'd rather see the standardized test as a part of the whole picture. I've never been good at standardized tests, yet I have a 3.9 GPA from my BS degree. If I don't do well enough on the PSB test, they won't ever see my previous educational success....which I think is a much better indicator of my future educational success than a standardized test that is testing me on chemistry I haven't had since high school 20+ years ago.
I wouldn't mind the standardized tests as long as they were being used as part of the whole picture. But I'd actually rather see them not required at all. Many schools have gotten rid of the GRE's because they have been shown to not necessarily be an exact predictor of future academic success.
The two other schools I am applying to also require the standardized tests but after they see your other qualifications. All three require essays, letters of rec, transcripts, etc...
I think GPA in previous educational endeavors, an essay and an in person interview would be sufficient in determining a candidates potential for success in nursing school.
As for me, I'm studying up on TEST TAKING...not necessarily the content (though some of that too)...and I feel very stressed and afraid about taking this entrance test even though I already know that I can handle the educational requirements...but the nursing school won't know it unless I can tell them that sun:mercury::sun:Venus (and yes, that's an actual example from my practice test).