How has nursing changed you?

macawake, MSN · Feb 12, 2018

"what you did was a gross ethical violation" "vile"
I think we are going off the deep end here,One might not agree 100% with the actions but the intent was NOT to do harm,AND NO harm was done. It is the same as you refusing to pray along with a patient that is holding on to rosary beads while dying because - it is "vile" to discuss religion?

Do you know what I dislike just as much as I dislike people who try to force their beliefs unto vulnerable, helpless patients? Intellectual dishonesty.

First of all, I suggest you use the "quote" button. You'll find it in the bottom righthand corner of the post you wish to quote and reply to. Then I recommend you quote the entire post instead of just taking a few words out of context to make it suit your narrative. It also helps with clarity for other readers because several pages down the road in a long thread, no one even knows who you are responding to when you only pick a few disjointed words or sentences.

You are being disingenuous when you imply I said it's vile to discuss religion (in general). We are discussing a very special set of circumstances here, aren't we? We are talking a about the nurse-patient relationship and we are talking about a patient who couldn't be in a more vulnerable situation; dying and unconscious.

How can you be certain that "NO harm" was done? How do you know that? I'm here telling you that if someone had done that to me, harm would have been done. You cannot generalize your own perceptions to apply to the entire human population.

Leader25, what exactly did I call "vile"? Allow me to refresh your memory.

How can I make you understand?
Imagine the following scenario. A person you love is terminally ill, hospitalized and unconscious. The patient is a Christian. S/he is cared for by an atheist nurse who provides excellent nursing care for the physical body. But since her atheist convictions are important to her and it pains her that so many people believe in things that aren't real, she leans in and whispers in her patient's ear. "Your family will be here soon. You must hang on a moment longer so that they have a chance to say goodbye. Be strong for them because once you draw your final breath, that's it. There's no afterlife. There's nothing. You will simply be gone, but you will remain a loving and cherished memory in the hearts of your loved ones".
Is this acceptable to you? Personally I think it's vile, even if I happen to believe that the nurse is correct. She just has no business imposing her views on a helpless patient. Neither does a Christian nurse.

As you can see I was trying to paint a picture of the opposite of someone proselytizing the Christian faith to a helpless, dying patient. I was addressing a nurse whose only reply to "I cannot even begin to express to you how distressed this would have made me if I was your patient. I don't share your religious beliefs and if you had proselytized to me when I was in such a vulnerable state, you would have made my final moments on this earth some of the most upsetting and anxiety provoking of my life." was: " I don't see anything wrong with what he said. I find it sad you find offense where there is none. " I found that reply to someone describing very strong emotions to be very detached and as not treating the feelings expressed as legitimate. The angst described was in my opinion basically brushed aside with "it's sad you feel that way".

In an attempt to make the poster understand how it might feel to be "preached to" on your deathbed, I created a scenario. I was attempting to describe how an atheist nurse tries to convince a dying Christian patient that God does not exist. And I called that vile.

It's not discussing religion that is vile and I certainly didn't say that as you imply in your reply to me and the out of context manner in which you quoted me.

It seems to me that some Christian folks (not all though!) seem to have a blind spot to the fact that the way they practise their faith can actually actively hurt another person and violate that person's autonomy. I hope it's a blind spot, because the alternative is that they simply don't care that they violate another person's beliefs.

To me what's positive regarding religion is the happiness, serenity and comfort it seems to give the believer. The ugly side is lack of respect for the right of others to believe what they want without the Christian attempting to foist his/her beliefs unto the non-believer. And it is never uglier than when it's done to a helpless patient entrusted in one's care.

(vanilla bean and brandy1017, I have quoted your post or parts of it, in this post).

@brandy1017. I don't know if you've returned to this post since you posted in it? I had hoped to see a reply from you. I'm sure you are a good person with your heart in the right place, but your reply to vanilla bean saddened me. I don't think that what s/he expressed really registered and I don't think you acknowledged that what s/he expressed is a legitimate concern that deserves respect.

Many posters have "liked" OP's post and I assume that means that they approve of what OP whispered into his dying patient's ear. No one has answered my question. I'm curious to know if anyone finds my hypothetical scenario acceptable? Assuming that you are Christian, would you be perfectly fine with an atheist nurse doing this to you or a loved one? Yes or no?

Imagine the following scenario. A person you love is terminally ill, hospitalized and unconscious. The patient is a Christian. S/he is cared for by an atheist nurse who provides excellent nursing care for the physical body. But since her atheist convictions are important to her and it pains her that so many people believe in things that aren't real, she leans in and whispers in her patient's ear. "Your family will be here soon. You must hang on a moment longer so that they have a chance to say goodbye. Be strong for them because once you draw your final breath, that's it. There's no afterlife. There's nothing. You will simply be gone, but you will remain a loving and cherished memory in the hearts of your loved ones".
Is this acceptable to you?

macawake, MSN · Feb 12, 2018

Many posters have "liked" OP's post and I assume that means that they approve of what OP whispered into his dying patient's ear.

It's too late to edit the above post. My sincere apologies to OP. I mistakenly wrote OP, but I intended to write EGspirit who was the poster who described whispering things into his patient's ear. I'm genuinely sorry, OP. I just came off a long night shift, and my brain's a bit muddled :confused:

osceteacher · Feb 12, 2018

It pleases me to see so many people angry at the awful attempt to console a patient by preaching in to their ear while on their deathbed.

If there was a god I'd hope he'd give me just enough strength to raise my middle finger to that arrogant person for doing one of the only things I would detest being done to me in my final hours.

It's too late to edit the above post. My sincere apologies to OP. I mistakenly wrote OP, but I intended to write EGspirit who was the poster who described whispering things into his patient's ear. I'm genuinely sorry, OP. I just came off a long night shift, and my brain's a bit muddled

The majority of people probably just focused on the rest of the message and not the self serving preaching.

Its a shame there is no downvote button.

As to the OP.

Nursing absolutely changed me, I'm now not able to enjoy ANY medical scenes in films or TV.

thoughtful21, BSN, RN · Feb 13, 2018

It's too late to edit the above post. My sincere apologies to OP. I mistakenly wrote OP, but I intended to write EGspirit who was the poster who described whispering things into his patient's ear. I'm genuinely sorry, OP. I just came off a long night shift, and my brain's a bit muddled

That's ok! í ½í± I was kind of disappointed that my post got hijacked by the argument. But it's actually strangely relevant, isn't it? Everyone's thoughts are welcome. I've been staying out of it by only liking posts that answer the original question. If anyone has more comments about how nursing has changed them, I'd love to hear it! I've been keeping up with this post and reading every comment.

Davey Do · Feb 13, 2018

Many posters have "liked" OP's post and I assume that means that they approve of what OP whispered into his dying patient's ear.

Perhaps my comment belongs in klone's Like Thread, but I don't always like a post if I agree with, or approve, of it. I may dislike or not agree with what is said, but I will often like a post because of the discussion it spurs.

I use the like button as a quick, informal means of communication. Sometimes I like a post just to communicate to its author that I read it.

If I don't "Like" a post, I'm sending just as strong of a message as if I "Liked" it.

Mini2544, ASN, RN · Feb 13, 2018

You don't get it. And I'm damn sure not going to explain myself to you.

People like that are vile and sad. I wouldn't even respond. I loved your story. Thank you for sharing. Honestly, there are quite a few users on this site that embarrass me to think they share the same profession as me, but others, like yourself, make me feel proud. Keep it up ðŸ˜Š

Mini2544, ASN, RN · Feb 13, 2018

I'm an atheist and this whole thread is confusing to me. Since when is saying something about god near a non-believer "imposing beliefs?" People pray for me....whatever...they're not making ME pray or making ME observe.

Because people like to act like rude teenagers on this site. I guess it makes them feel important. I totally agree with your point BTW

vanilla bean · Feb 13, 2018

People like that are vile and sad. I wouldn't even respond. I loved your story. Thank you for sharing. Honestly, there are quite a few users on this site that embarrass me to think they share the same profession as me, but others, like yourself, make me feel proud. Keep it up ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½

Since EGspirit was responding to me, I will respond to you. I am not vile, nor am I sad. I can only presume that attacking me personally makes you somehow feel better. I'm sorry you got so angry by my opinion that you felt the need to malign my character. As a reminder, I'm a complete stranger to you and have never done or said anything to you (or EGspirit for that matter) that could be construed as a personal attack warranting your name calling.

Btw, I *completely* agree with your point in your next post that some people on this site like to act like rude teenagers :whistling:

osceteacher · Feb 13, 2018

Btw, I *completely* agree with your point in your next post that some people on this site like to act like rude teenagers

Thats what we call irony, I doubt Mini2544 even grasps the concept.

Also the irony that these guys are the most judgemental is probably not lost on those of us who can grasp irony.

IrishCMSRN, BSN, RN · Feb 13, 2018

Yes, I now have an intense dislike for people with a string of initials after their name........

IrishCMSRN, BSN, RN · Feb 13, 2018

...oh and the whole "lifesaver" attitude.....kills me. You hang IV bags all day and you think that is saving a life.

Unless you are cracking ribs with a good outcome, you aint lifesaving!

...and the string of hate responses begins, now....

macawake, MSN · Feb 13, 2018

I was kind of disappointed that my post got hijacked by the argument. But it's actually strangely relevant, isn't it? Everyone's thoughts are welcome. I've been staying out of it by only liking posts that answer the original question. If anyone has more comments about how nursing has changed them, I'd love to hear it! I've been keeping up with this post and reading every comment.

I'm sorry, OP. This thread has definitely turned a bit strange Sometimes threads just take on a life of their own. For what it's worth, I think you started a thread on an interesting topic!

Now, unfortunately, I feel compelled to continue on the "God whispering" tangent.

People like that are vile and sad.

You actually called a specific poster in this thread; vile. What are you demonstrating? Agape in action? You called a person vile for simply expressing how it would make them feel if a nurse said certain things to them when they were in an extremely vulnerable situation. Since the response you quoted was a direct reply to a specific person, you are not calling people in general vile, you singled out a specific poster. Did you not realize that was what you were doing?

How much do you reflect on the posts you read? I ask because when I read that something a nurse says, could cause a patient profound emotional distress, that gives me pause. It's a reminder that different patients may react to words differently depending on many patient-specific factors. I don't claim to be perfect, but I do try to meet my patient where he or she "is at". I let nursing and medical "best practice" guide me, and always aim to keep ethical considerations in the forefront. I do not let my personal beliefs dictate the care I provide.

Let me ask you this in another way. If a person explains that something a nurse could say to her dying patient would make that person's final moments very distressing, wouldn't you want to not say those things?

Because people like to act like rude teenagers on this site.

This begs the question how you rate your own contributions in this thread?

Wouldn't it be more productive to actually explain specifically what it was a poster said that you object to? That way you and whomever it concerns could have a dialogue and perhaps reach some sort of understanding? Or, not. But you'd at least explore if there was any common ground to be found. Even if you don't end up agreeing, perhaps both parties could increase their understanding of the other person's standpoint.

Calling vanilla bean vile was extremely rude and wholly uncalled for. In my opinion you owe him/her an apology.