How many times do you try to start an IV before calling in reinforcements?

Nurses General Nursing

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This has probably been covered before but I missed it so please bear with me. I got to work the other night and had a male pt. in his mid forties who was newly admitted earlier in the day. After report I started browsing through his chart on the computer and noticed an entry in the nurses notes that stated a 20ga. angiocath had been inserted in his wrist x11 attempts. Huh? Must be a double clutch on the number 1 key, right? I looked at the IV assesment tab and there it was again - 11 attempts, all by the same nurse. I might add there was no mention of dehydraton or edema anywhere in the dx. or notes.

I went to the pt.'s room and found a very unhappy camper. He was very vocal about being stuck so many times and his wife was almost in tears over the incident. I started checking him over and to me his veins didn't look all that bad, except for the bruises where he had been stuck. I went back to the nurses station and asked the charge nurse about this and she told me that that particular RN is known for multiple attempts. She said there have been a number of complaints about this very subject but since she is married to one of the county comissioners who oversee the hospital nothing is ever done. (God love small town politics!)

The nurse in question is an older RN who works prn as a charge nurse. She will not allow anyone else to start IVs when she is around. There was at least one other RN, a couple of LVNs, and a couple of EMTs in house at the time but she refused to ask for help. No one was aware of what was going on until it was over.

My question is, how many attempts is too many? How many attempts do you make before you call in someone else to try? My own personal rule of thumb is three strikes and I let someone else take a stab at it. (Sorry about that)

I might add the site infiltrated later in the night. I restarted it in the other forearm on one try. It was still working 48 hours later.

Any thoughts?

Specializes in CT stepdown, hospice, psych, ortho.

Every hospital I've ever worked at We have 3 attempts then you have to call the doctor and he will tell you to call anesthesia or put in an order for a DL PICC.

Specializes in Infusion Nursing, Home Health Infusion.

YES way too many...find your policy and if she violated it you have to write it up so there will be some changes made on that nurses part. Just for some info..the wrist and volar wrist are the most common location of injury cited in lawsuits related to IV therapy (about 50 % of them). So I avoid it for the most part.....if I have to use that vein in the the wrist I trace it down and will access it the hand or follow it up the arm (yes it a little more difficult to catch there but worth the effort)..I also do the same in the volar wrist...avoid it or follow it up. I have found that many nurses lose their confidence after several missed sticks and its just fine to get fresh eyes and hands. Sometimes if I can not get something.....I take a little break....come back and get it then b/c I know that many times I am it...if I can not get it they will not either or everyone is maxed out on their sticks. it really just makes it more difficult for the next nurse if a nurse just keeps sticking in a non-life threatning situation. as there are less choices. I also have to say that this nurse was not being a patient advocate...it almost sounds like an EGO thing. I have nurses call me every day and say I tried once or twice and I just can't get it please help b/c I do not want to keep poking my patient. I always tell them OK..I understand you are doing what is best for the patient how can I argue with that!!!

hey everyone!

just got a question...

I asked my mom if an Rn could do an IV to a patient...she's an RN and she works at O.R. and she told me that RN's are NOT entitled to give IV's to patients!! and she said it's supposed to be the doctor who will do it. not the nurse.

so i'm confuse? i'm an upcoming nursing student this fall, and u guys have been talking about giving shots and IV so i dunno if she's right?

are Nurses not entitled to giving IV???

Specializes in Med/Surge, Psych, LTC, Home Health.

Usually 2, sometimes 3. That's it.

Specializes in Float pool for 14 months.

I try 2-3x. Then ask for help. Working in the ED has helped me tenfold with ivs. When I was a float, I only floated to one med/surg floor and most were elderly pts with no veins, so I either put in a 24 or 22 if I could get one in @ all. Now I usually can get an 18 in. Most docs want an 18 minimum. Argggh. When its a trauma, usually a 16 or 14. I've only gotten 1 14 successfully. 16s quite a bit. It just is nerve wracking when there are a zillion ppl in the room, my confidence goes down the drain quick.

Walk in thinking your'e going to stick me 11 times and see what happens. Was recently hospitalized. I was stuck 3 times and still didn't have a line. I got up and left and came back Monday morning when I could have a PICC placed. I'm not a pin cushion.

Specializes in Med/Tele, Home Health, Case Management.

Usually I try 2x then ask someone else to try. If the patient tell me beforehand that they are a hard stick or have rolling veins, I may only try once before enlisting help. As a patient, I would insist another nurse try after 3 failed attempts.

I worked on a tele unit where we had a VenoScope but it was rarely used. The only reason I know about it and have used one is because my preceptor had his own and showed me how to use it. It is really cool! I wish I had one now.

I can not imagine a non-emergancy situation within the hospital that would warrant 11 attempts by the same nurse. I'd be very tempted to have a little birdy whisper in that patient's ear to make a forma, written complaint about it.

Transducers are great but in my experience they won't overcome crappy technique.

That said...how many attempts I'll make depends on the situation. In the ER I'll do 2 and hand it off unless I've learned from the first two tries and am very, very sure I can get it on a 3rd.

I also do stat homehealth visits to infuse hemophilia factors. I can usually get a butterfly in the AC on the first or second try but if I'm having trouble I'll keep going as long as the patient asks me to. Most of them will go to great lengths to avoid an ER visit to be infused, it takes hours and it seems like someone always wants to reinvent the wheel by getting a hemo consult when the patient is sitting there with their factor in their hands, their specialist is on the phone and they just needs someone to drop a line (these are outreach clients).

I do have a Fabrazyme client who is a very, very hard stick (deep veins and he vagals) beg me to keep trying. His port had failed and this was his infusion the night before leaving on a Eurpean vacation. I was in tears by the time I got a viable site.

Specializes in Float pool for 14 months.

What I find funny, is that when I enter the room to line and lab someone who comes into the ED,and they tell me they are a hard stick, I often get it on the first attempt with a large gauge. I often miss on the person with pipes!!!! Super annoying to say the least!

exactly, I just looked it up too $200. If each floor had just one machine for those hard to stick cases, people wouldn't have to be poked 11 times.:uhoh3:

They're very small. They disappear quite easily. Floors can't keep up with a thermometer or even a scale or a hoyer lift. They'd disappear.

And they aren't miracles. They're great for teeny tiny babies where it's like threading a needle. For adults, not so much. With adults, it's not a problem of "finding" or "seeing" the vein. It's bouncing off leathery skin. It's crap veins that blow because you've dared go near them with a needle. It's rolling. It's scarred over veins. It's veins that won't thread.

I try twice then call for help. But when I was a patient, I realized that each one should only try once.....when I was a patient, three RNs tried thrice and then finally the Anesthesiologist! Imagine ten sticks! :uhoh3:

I have to disagree with only one try per person. That first stick you often learn from. Everybody's skin/veins are different. The same person trying a second time is often much more likely to get it than a different person trying the first time.

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