How should I handle this??

weetziebat · Apr 19, 2006

IMHO, they're just trying to guilt trip you, and the NM should have seen through that and handled it by speaking with the CNA's herself.

CNA= Certified Nursing Assistant. Not nurse. S/he cannot do the same tasks and such that nurses have gone to school, and have a license to do. Their job is to do tasks to assist the RN's and LPN's. They are there to assist the patient in doing things for them they are now, because of hospitalization, unable to do for themselves.

If you had the time to do their jobs, why would they be needed? Perhaps you could take a mop and dustcloth into each room and clean also, doing away with need for housekeepers.

I realize being a CNA is very hard, backbreaking work in many cases. And always busy. So is being a nurse. Which is why I think it was a silly waste of time for your NM to be holding a meeting about this. What did she want to accomplish, aside from making you all feel guilty. Which you shouldn't!

How did the meeting end? If you are now supposed to help out the CNA's, who is gonna help you out? Somehow I highly doubt it will be the NM. :rolleyes:

Antikigirl, ASN, RN · Apr 20, 2006

I am a big CNA advocate...I depend on them as part of the team helping the patient. But when I did get complaints from CNA's...I simply told them honestly..."That is the whole reason I got my RN!".

I do different things but responsible for it all..whether a CNA does it or not...so I don't think I am getting the better end of the stick per say...but, since they really are two different entities, both with good and bad points...well...again..the reason I went to school for RN!

Somedays I feel the exact SAME for MD's! Like why can't they take a vs while they are in there..is it so tough? Why can't they help to transfer a patient when they are in the room with me instead of me having to find someone else? Why can't they make their own calls? Why can't they check their own charts instead of having me read it over the phone? The list goes on....

It is all about the field you are in...and an RN has many things to do..and so does the MD and the CNA! The basic line, who is assigned what duties by the state to make things run smoother???

I help out whenever I can, in fact...I am use to doing my own beds/bsc/transfers/VS/attend changes/foley drains...and more because my CNA's are always soooooo busy..and it is diagnostic and good assessment for me too! AND it gives me a good eye for the patients that most CNA's only get!

Yeah, we all have to pitch in..that is teamwork...but some have priority of care that stops us at certain points due to time management....so if I can't help a transfer or get all my foleys drained...it is SO nice to have that help and be able to rely on it if I can't get it done due to my own duties :)!

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Apr 20, 2006

I'm glad that I work in a speciality where CNAs are not used. I was a CNA for 3 years, and know what it's like, but they have not been nurses. I am weary of them thinking that their work is just as hard. They never seem to notice that they get their breaks and lunches and get to go home on time while nurses do not. CNAs sitting at the desk need to get off of their butts and help the pts.

Your boss needs to realize that you need to prioritize your tasks.

What many CNAs don't understand is this-

It's not that nurses think they are too good to help them, it's that nurses have other duties, responsibilities and priorities that CNAs don't have, so the nurses just don't have time to help them.

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Apr 20, 2006

Just so that you know this is not an isolated thing, we went through this whole scenario with the LPNs on the stepdown unit where I worked back in 1984! This is what I and the other RNs put our heads together and came up with. Are you paying attention?

When ever we were sitting at the nurses station and a light went off and one of the LPNs got up to answer it, one of us RNs would jump up and say, "You finish what you're doing. I'll get that." It is important that we had to have an audience of other LPNs there to be witnesses to this. When ever there was a situation where there were witnesses to attest to our helping them out, we would volunteer our help. Again, it is important to have the witnesses. You might need them later!

Now, I'm not saying that you should always let your subordinate staff do the physical work. I've always pitched in. It's just that you need to make sure, periodically, that you have witnesses or you make a little of a fuss like "I'll get that for you", or "you've been so busy, let me get that" to see that you are pitching in--got it? I hate kissing butt like that, but sometimes you just gotta do it to keep the peace.

LoriAlabamaRN · Apr 20, 2006

This situation has come up in my facility as well. The way I explained it to the CNAs is that while the nurse can do all the things that a CNA can, a CNA cannot do the job of the nurse. Therefore, it is most important for the nurse to do his or her job as a priority, then help the CNA if they are able to. Being a nurse is a fulltime job. I'm not saying that if the nurse is doing nothing that she shouldn't help put someone on a bedpan, but she should not be expected to give higher priority to helping the CNA than to doing her own work. I also explained that during med pass the nurse may very well call the CNA if after the patient takes their meds they want to go to the bathroom, because the nurse has a set time they have to get out their medications by. Teamwork is the key, and my CNAs see me on the floor with them changing diapers, etc when I am not busy, so they know that when I cannot help them I truly cannot.

clee1 · Apr 20, 2006

My take is a little different. While I agree with some of the previous posts r/t CNAs can't do nurse's work, while nurses CAN do CNA duties as time permits, for me it boils down simply as this: CNAs are PAID to turn pts., clean incontinent pts, feed, etc. It is their JOB! Either do it well, cheerfully, and without all the griping, or find another line of work.

Yes we are all in this together, but the focus HAS to be on the needs of the patient - provided in the most efficient and effective manner possible. It is neither efficient nor effective to have highly educated nurses doing the tasks that UAPs can do.

A good CNA is worth his/her weight in gold; but a gripy one is nothing but a pain in the assets.

hoppermom3 · Apr 20, 2006

I had a situation last weekend...CNA wanted help changing a pt. The first time she asked me, I was just picking up the phone to call the dr about a high blood sugar on a new admit that he had not resumed insulin on. Second time, I was writing and taking off the order. I told her I would help as soon as I got this done and gave the insulin. CNA asks ER Tech, who says "There's a nurse just sitting there, ask her." Mind you, there are NO ER pts at the time. CNA says "I already asked her twice and she won't help me." I quickly finished writing, got up, and changed the pt. never mind that this was the last task both of these others had to do, and I still had nebs, clapping/postural dng, insulin, and charting to finish.

I was a CNA for a long time before becoming a nurse. I know that they work hard and I am always appreciative. However, I do resent the implication that nurses just sit around doing nothing.

thumperRN · Apr 20, 2006

My take is a little different. While I agree with some of the previous posts r/t CNAs can't do nurse's work, while nurses CAN do CNA duties as time permits, for me it boils down simply as this: CNAs are PAID to turn pts., clean incontinent pts, feed, etc. It is their JOB! Either do it well, cheerfully, and without all the griping, or find another line of work.
Yes we are all in this together, but the focus HAS to be on the needs of the patient - provided in the most efficient and effective manner possible. It is neither efficient nor effective to have highly educated nurses doing the tasks that UAPs can do.
A good CNA is worth his/her weight in gold; but a gripy one is nothing but a pain in the assets.

:yeahthat: We all have to pull our weight. I realize the CNA's can't be more than one place at one time, neither can I. I will do whatever I can to help them out, but I can't do their job and mine too. I am blessed to have great aids who know this. I DO have a real problem with people who sit on their butts though. I know that if you can get a moment to sit down, you should do it, but NOT when there are things to be done, lights going off, etc. To me, that is only acceptable if you are on break. I do sometimes sit to do some of my charting, but that is usually in a 3-5 minute increment at a time. Everyone should read their job description very well, and if you don't agree with it or don't want to perform the tasks that are lined out - get a different job!!! :madface:

Megsd, BSN, RN · Apr 20, 2006

As a CNA, the only times I ask a nurse for help with a simple task (transfer to toilet, pulling up in bed for meals) is when I have already radioed for help from another CNA 3+ times with no response. And usually the nurses are good about stepping in if I have asked for help repeatedly and been ignored. (And I usually tell them "Can you please help me pull up Bob? I've already asked on the radio 3 times and didn't get any answer")

If the CNAs on your unit have banded together as a team to battle the terrible injustice of having to work together, then they really need to... well... band together as a team when they take care of patients too. Unfortunately on my unit the CNAs are very cliquish and I was the new kid who was pretty much hazed, ridiculed and ignored. The aides would bend over backwards to help their friends, but completely ignore me. I have gone many times to the nurses station to find them sitting at the desk reading the newspaper and then asking them for help since they ignored my radio calls.

Anyway, now I'm ranting. What I'm getting at, I guess, from a CNA perspective, is I know that my job is busy and your job is busy. But the goal for both of us is patient care. If I'm really in a serious bind and no CNAs will help me, I don't think it's a terrible thing for me to ask a nurse to help with a task that takes maybe 30 seconds tops. I'm not saying that nurses need to pick up all the slack for a lack of CNA teamwork, but an occasional hand is always very much appreciated.

clee1 · Apr 20, 2006

What I'm getting at, I guess, from a CNA perspective, is I know that my job is busy and your job is busy. But the goal for both of us is patient care. If I'm really in a serious bind and no CNAs will help me, I don't think it's a terrible thing for me to ask a nurse to help with a task that takes maybe 30 seconds tops. I'm not saying that nurses need to pick up all the slack for a lack of CNA teamwork, but an occasional hand is always very much appreciated.

100% agreed.

If EVERYONE, MDs, Nurses, Aides, Techs, etc. would ALL just realize that we are being PAID to do a job - take care of the patient - then everyone would be better off, and our facilities would be better places to work. The one phrase that makes me madder than any other is "That's not MY job/patient!" :angryfire

However, healthcare suffers from the same issue as the rest of our society/culture: I want more $$$$ and I shouldn't have to do squat to get it.

I don't have all the answers, but it seems to me that if managers were DOING the job THEY are getting paid for, there would be alot less of this bullsqueeze to gripe about.

CHATSDALE · Apr 20, 2006

when i am passing meds i don't do anything else, not only is it time consuming but it is usually more sanitary...

if i am making rounds i will usually assist someone to a br or bsc and then call a aide to help them when they are finished.

v/s are the worse as far as the aids in my facility..some pts need to have v/s before specific meds and some need v/s but not at that time...if they see you taking a b/p or pulse they figure that you should take all of them

when i have time i usually do, it gives you a feel for the character of the v/s and not just the numbers but frequently there is just no time