How to Answer a Patient Who Asks: "Does God Exist?"

[S.I.C.]

Many patients asked me if God exists.  I said, yes, but I failed to prove it to them? Can anyone help me?

[S.I.C.]

Hi TheMoonisMylantern, ADN,LPN, RN

You great experiences. It is my very first time to hear of a nurse who cared for a "devil worshiper" patient. I really think that I am learning something new from you.  I don't know what would be my attitude toward such kind of a patient.  Personally I am scared of the devil. So, to have someone who worships this being around me would make me also sacred of him. However, now I don't know if I was assigned to him/her, if I would also refuse to care for him, and you did not tell us if those nurses who refused to care for him got punished because of that.

Are we (nurses) ethically allowed to refused to care for devil worshiper patients?  I want to know because this is totally new to me.

When I think of evolution in nursing, sometimes if think that it time for nursing curriculum to include philosophical courses so that they can be able to have more answers to give, because they care for patients from different backgrounds and with different levels of education.

I believe someday soon or later, some patients will ask you these five questions:

1. Who am I?,  2. Where do I come from?, 3.  Where am I going?, 4.  What is the purpose of my life? 5.  Is really death the end of human life?

These questions puzzled ancient philosophers like Plato, Aristotle, Socrates...and until today, these questions are very difficult to answer them.

You state: "I am not a Christian, and my beliefs are complicated and not mainstream by any means". You are not Christian, not Atheist, not Agnostic, not Pagan probably.... Between us: "where do you stand? why is it complicated? or you probably do not believe in anything?  I am sorry of my questions are impolite or stupid..., they are not meant to attack you, but only I am learning from you. Please, help!  You have experiences that most of us do not have, and personally, I need your help. 

[TheMoonisMyLantern, ADN, LPN, RN]

1 hour ago, S.I.C. said:

Hi TheMoonisMylantern, ADN,LPN, RN

You great experiences. It is my very first time to hear of a nurse who cared for a "devil worshiper" patient. I really think that I am learning something new from you.  I don't know what would be my attitude toward such kind of a patient.  Personally I am scared of the devil. So, to have someone who worships this being around me would make me also sacred of him. However, now I don't know if I was assigned to him/her, if I would also refuse to care for him, and you did not tell us if those nurses who refused to care for him got punished because of that.

Are we (nurses) ethically allowed to refused to care for devil worshiper patients?  I want to know because this is totally new to me.

When I think of evolution in nursing, sometimes if think that it time for nursing curriculum to include philosophical courses so that they can be able to have more answers to give, because they care for patients from different backgrounds and with different levels of education.

I believe someday soon or later, some patients will ask you these five questions:

1. Who am I?,  2. Where do I come from?, 3.  Where am I going?, 4.  What is the purpose of my life? 5.  Is really death the end of human life?

These questions puzzled ancient philosophers like Plato, Aristotle, Socrates...and until today, these questions are very difficult to answer them.

You state: "I am not a Christian, and my beliefs are complicated and not mainstream by any means". You are not Christian, not Atheist, not Agnostic, not Pagan probably.... Between us: "where do you stand? why is it complicated? or you probably do not believe in anything?  I am sorry of my questions are impolite or stupid..., they are not meant to attack you, but only I am learning from you. Please, help!  You have experiences that most of us do not have, and personally, I need your help. 

 

The patient that the nurses refused to care for was Wiccan but due to their lack of knowledge regarding Wicca they made the assumption that the patient was a "devil worshiper" when in fact there is no devil in Wicca. These nurses did not face any discipline for refusing the patient but I wish they would have been provided education about the patient's religion so that maybe they wouldn't have made negative assumptions.

I would not refuse a patient based on their religious beliefs, I would not refuse to treat a patient regardless of any of their beliefs. I have taken care of some very wonderful people over the years and I have taken care of some not so good people. I have been called terrible things many times by patients not to mention been on the receiving end of physical violence and yet have continued to provide care for those patients. As nurses, we don't get to pick who comes to us for care so I think it's important that we remember regardless of the person's religion they are still deserving of care.

If you had someone who was a devil worshiper I realize how difficult that would be for a Christian, however even in this day and age devil worshippers don't commonly advertise that they are, due to the obvious reasons. Many people also fear Satanists but fail to realize that satanism and devil worship are actually two completely different beliefs. The Church of Satan actually does not believe there is a devil nor a God, rather, they use Satan as a metaphor to represent their belief in the importance of self ambition and personal power. 

I find different religions to be very interesting though I don't personally believe them. 

Would you participate in the spiritual aspect of a patient's care if they were non-Christian? Why or why not? 

[spotangel, DNP, RN, NP]

5 hours ago, TheMoonisMyLantern said:

I live in the bible belt and over the years I've been asked "Are you a christian?" by a patient about 500 million times usually by geriatric patients. I am not a christian, and my beliefs are complicated and not mainstream by any means. In my area if I were to answer honestly, I run the risk of losing trust with my patient as other religions are viewed very negatively where I live as is agnosticism and atheism. When I worked psych I would turn the question around back at the patient and avoid answering it. Working with geriatrics however is different especially LTC where you could be providing care for your patients for years. And when I worked acute care, I didn't have time for long spiritual discussions, so my response generally was to tell them what they wanted to hear. "Why yes I'm a Christian." "Yes I've been saved." Therapeutic lying. The response then is "Oh good, I'm relieved." Maybe it's wrong of me to lie? But I figure my beliefs are irrelavent to their care, and if lying will make them feel better, why not? 

Meanwhile, one hospital I worked at, we had a patient admitted for pneumonia one time who brought in books about Wicca to read while she was there and 3/4's of the nursing staff refused to provide care for her because she was a "devil worshiper", only myself and a nurse on dayshift would go into her room. It was really sad, and management just looked the other way. 

Not taking care of a pt due to their religious beliefs is not acceptable. Good you stood up for the pt and took care of her! Religious tolerance is a learned behaviour and sometimes people have a one track mind!

I remember as a young nurse working in Saudi Arabia, I was asked to become a muslim since I was so "good"! I thanked the pt for his "compliment" but told the patient that all religions have "good and bad people". He called his God Allah and I called him Jesus! In the end it came down to choices to choose right or wrong using one's free will!

[GrumpyRN, NP]

8 hours ago, S.I.C. said:

Personally I am scared of the devil. So, to have someone who worships this being around me would make me also sacred of him.

I don't see why you would be scared of the devil. God is much scarier.

The devil has only killed about 10 people while god killed approximately 25 million people in the old testament .

 

[GrumpyRN, NP]

On 12/26/2020 at 4:55 PM, Curious1997 said:

Not if you are Victor Meldrew you won't?????

A non-sequitur? 

(Yes, I get the reference but not the context)

[S.I.C.]

Hi GrumpyRN, NP

I am scared of the devil because he is the origin of all evil things in this world, including sickness and death.  From the garden of Eden until today, people suffer so much, and finally die with great pain.  The devil brought sin, and because of sin, all of us including animals and in fact everything in this world suffer and die. 

I was taught that God is love.  He loves me and He loves you too. Jesus died on the cross of Calvary because of His love to humanity.  In fact Jesus brought the highest level of morality where He teaches us not to kill, not to steal, to love even our enemies and pray for them. That is why, I am not cared of God. With my human knowledge and understanding, I may not fully understand why God allowed those 25 millions to die, but I think it was because of their sins. The people who lived during the time of Noah were wicked and refused to repent; and so were the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, and God destroyed them.  They became wicked because of the devil. I don't where you got the figure of 25 million who got killed by God, and only 10 people who got killed by the devil. Who killed people during World War I and World war II? The bubonic plague killed many people, who was behind it?  These are difficult questions we may discuss and come to a common agreement! Right?

I know this topic can bring unnecessary debate; but anyone who believes in God knows that God love, God loves everyone, and brings blessings to everyone including His enemies. Can you also say that the devil loves people and blesses them?  Do you anyone who has been blessed by the devil?

In caring for patients, I understand from my colleagues, that I have no choice other than to care for everyone regardless of their religious affiliations. That mean, I have to take very well to a devil worshiper patient, as I can care for an Atheist, agnostic, pagan, Muslim, Buddhist, Christian and so forth.  I would not be cared anymore.  That is a very good lesson I learned from this forum.

[S.I.C.]

Hi TheMoonisMylantern, ADN,LPN, RN,

"Would you participate in the spiritual aspect of a patient's care if they were non-Christian? Why or why not?"

Absolutely. If my patients are not Christians, I would participate in the spiritual aspect of the care without imposing my own beliefs, and without judging theirs.  Patients are innocent people who in their struggles and pains have different questions in their minds.  As much as I can, I will help and I will avoid hurting them. If some questions are beyond my knowledge, I would seek help from other people depending on the needs of the patients.  Patients trust us and feel very happy to discuss any topic they feel is relevant to them if it may be not relevant to us. 

[GrumpyRN, NP]

8 minutes ago, S.I.C. said:

I don't where you got the figure of 25 million who got killed by God,

Reading the bible. It is all there. To save you the trouble here is a site that shows all the deaths;

https://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

 

 

[S.I.C.]

Hi spontangel,

I think your experience as a young nurse in Saudi Arabia is a very great one. I appreciate it and it reminds me of something. I had similar experience when I was caring for Buddhist patients.  Respecting patients' beliefs is important.

[S.I.C.]

Hi GrumpyRN, PN

Thank you very much for the list I found the site you gave me.  The list indicates the people that God killed.  Where is the list of only 10 people that the devil killed?  I will ready again and again, and see if the devil was not involved in those 25 millions.  Were they good people or wicked ones?  Whoever they were; me a simple human may not really why God allowed this to happen.  I cannot even know the extent to which the devil was involved.  What I know is that whatever Go does, He does it for a good reason.  Would you also say whatever the devil does, does it also for a good reason?

Well, these are difficult things to discuss but very I think very good to discuss too. Thank you very much for the list.  

[guest1163268]

6 hours ago, GrumpyRN said:

A non-sequitur? 

(Yes, I get the reference but not the context)

"I don't believe it!!"????. 

Seriously, Grumpy RN, Victor Meldrew and you don't get the context? One of my favorite characters ever! 

[S.I.C.]

Hi GrumpyRN, PN

Thank you very much for the list I found the site you gave me.  The list indicates the people that God killed.  Where is the list of only 10 people that the devil killed?  I will ready again and again, and see if the devil was not involved in those 25 millions.  Were they good people or wicked ones?  Whoever they were; me a simple human may not really why God allowed this to happen.  I cannot even know the extent to which the devil was involved.  What I know is that whatever Go does, He does it for a good reason.  Would you also say whatever the devil does, does it also for a good reason?

Well, these are difficult things to discuss but very I think very good to discuss too. Thank you very much for the list.  

Hi Curious 1997

"

"I don't believe it!!"????. 

Seriously, Grumpy RN, Victor Meldrew and you don't get the context? One of my favorite characters ever! "

I don't believe it too!!?