$8.25 an hour...*** is this normal?

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I had an interview with a LTC center in Long Beach, CA. I am a new CNA but have two years of private duty care giving experience. They said the starting pay was $8.25 per hour with no benefits.... okay please tell me she was just low balling me and that CNA's in Los Angeles don't make that much money? I was hoping to make at least $10. But if its only $8.25 I will waitress my way to LVN school.

Specializes in OR-ICU.
While I agree "practicing" things are a "no no" (as you said), lemme CLARIFY the scope of a CNA:

In fundamentals class, you practice ADLS, foley insertion, foley care, vitals, etc. As a CNA, my first job was in a community hospital's ER. I put foleys in using the sterile technique, EKGs, phlebotomy, even perfumed in codes (bagging and chest compressions), oral suctioning, point of care testing such as blood Glucose monitoring. Yes, a CNA can build upon their "scope" and based on the experiences of my CNAs, if they were competent in aspects of advanced care, I DELEGATED to them...and I still do. I'm not sure how long you have been in your nursing career, but from my "limited" scope of CNA to my "limited" scope of an LPN to a RN, I have been able to expand my scope based on my institutions that saw the value of a competent individual, and you will have plenty of people that you are going to have to delegate to, so please get to know them and RESPECT their experience, so you will be able to work as a team. As for the poster before you, I would have her help on my team. And if facility policy, if she is able to put in the foley, the by all means I would be in the room and be with the individual, have them "practice" with me, then, when I'm confident, I can sign off her competency...that's how effective delegation works. I rather uplift and help members of my healthcare team maximize their skills, especially if the facility allows...makes better patient care when team work is involved...and each time I have utilized delegation, there have been ZERO adverse effects, near misses or misses that effected the pt...they actually GOT BETTER. So SAFE effective DELEGATION can work.

As a nurse you delegate to a CNA, work that is within the scope of what a CNA is legally allowed to do and what the facility allows them to do. Anyone can insert a Foley. Patients do that at home etc. You can very well teach a CNA to hang a piggyback or do IV push because those are skills that can be taught easily. But you do not do that because that is illegal and just wrong. Those are not within the scope of what a CNA can do. Sure they can learn all that but you do not let anyone who are not suppose to do those things just because they learned how to do them. I know these sort of things happen all the time and in some cases have become the "norm" due to the workload of nurses. But that doesn't mean that is legally acceptable. As a nurse we have a responsibility to be aware of the limits of care of our team members. Experience alone just doesn't cut it. Nurses have lost their licenses because of erroneous assumptions.

BTW I've always respected them. You just assumed wrong.

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Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.

I don't think that being a CNA before an RN is that much help in the sense that it should be required because of the "skill set" very little actual nursing care in related to what a CNA does, although you do NEED the tasks of a CNA (in my hospital, there are not always enough aids to to around on the M/S floor and nurses have to do CNA tasks) its easily and quickly learned in the first part of the first semester.

That being said, what I do see as a major benefit of having prior CNA experience when starting nursing school is, the already developed comfort level around patients. I was not a CNA but a CMA prior to nursing school; when everyone was terrified to simply go in and get vitals on the first day of clinical, I walked right in like I owned the place.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.

As a nurse you delegate to a CNA, work that is within the scope of what a CNA is legally allowed to do and what the facility allows them to do. Anyone can insert a Foley. Patients do that at home etc. You can very well teach a CNA to hang a piggyback or do IV push because those are skills that can be taught easily. But you do not do that because that is illegal and just wrong. Those are not within the scope of what a CNA can do. Sure they can learn all that but you do not let anyone who are not suppose to do those things just because they learned how to do them. I know these sort of things happen all the time and in some cases have become the "norm" due to the workload of nurses. But that doesn't mean that is legally acceptable. As a nurse we have a responsibility to be aware of the limits of care of our team members. Experience alone just doesn't cut it. Nurses have lost their licenses because of erroneous assumptions.

BTW I've always respected them. You just assumed wrong.

Lol...I am AWARE of my scope, as well as the art of delegation...and handling medicine is a "NO NO" for unlicensed personnel...Just like you think my ASSUMPTION of your respect for the scope is WRONG...please don't lecture me on scope of care, and what is WRONG...Again, my original post states what is in "scope" that is if FACILITY policy...ie "by the book." Again, your TONE sounds like you continue to undermine people with limited scopes, as well as the nurse who DELEGATE CORRECTLY...like myself...No adverse reactions, near misses, or lawsuits or license revocation because I HONOR MY LICENSE, as well as RESPECT MY TEAM...that is what being a part of a healthcare team is all about...working together WITHIN ACCEPTABLE SCOPE and FACILITY POLICY, NOT cutting corners...again, your comments are coming from a place of NO EXPERIENCE or inadequate experience respecting the healthcare team...you still have a lot to learn, in my opinion.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.

Bless you You're like the nurses I cherish so much at the hospital I work in.

"No day but today"

Your welcome...what the poster really needs to do is learn about policy...if you are following hospital policy and doing skilled care and are able to get competency, you are allowed to do those skills...but a lot of people get nursing school "tunnel vision" which I believe leads to lack of their healthcare team, leading to isolation and burnout in those early years...

But to not contribute to hijacking and detailing the thread, being a CNA may provide a comfort zone, however, remember to wear your nursing student hat in nursing school! :)

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Specializes in Short Term/Skilled.

Your welcome...what the poster really needs to do is learn about policy...if you are following hospital policy and doing skilled care and are able to get competency, you are allowed to do those skills...but a lot of people get nursing school "tunnel vision" which I believe leads to lack of their healthcare team, leading to isolation and burnout in those early years...

But to not contribute to hijacking and detailing the thread, being a CNA may provide a comfort zone, however, remember to wear your nursing student hat in nursing school! :)

Good advise. I am a semester or two away but will keep it in mind. It's the comfort zone I'm talking about, everyone's different but I feel like it will help me immensely being comfortable with patients, names of meds, labs, why labs are ordered, etc etc.i remember being HORRIFIED at the thought of seeing someone naked and am glad all of that is over with and I can focus on the material. :-)

"No day but today"

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Specializes in Short Term/Skilled.

As a nurse you delegate to a CNA, work that is within the scope of what a CNA is legally allowed to do and what the facility allows them to do. Anyone can insert a Foley. Patients do that at home etc. You can very well teach a CNA to hang a piggyback or do IV push because those are skills that can be taught easily. But you do not do that because that is illegal and just wrong. Those are not within the scope of what a CNA can do. Sure they can learn all that but you do not let anyone who are not suppose to do those things just because they learned how to do them. I know these sort of things happen all the time and in some cases have become the "norm" due to the workload of nurses. But that doesn't mean that is legally acceptable. As a nurse we have a responsibility to be aware of the limits of care of our team members. Experience alone just doesn't cut it. Nurses have lost their licenses because of erroneous assumptions.

BTW I've always respected them. You just assumed wrong.

In my hospital it is allowed. CNAs otherwise known as techs insert foleys, start IVs, do EKGs etc in the ER and on some med surge floors. Under no circumstances would anyone but a nurse administer medication of any kind. On my floor we are too busy getting people up and down and up and down to do Much else...we don't even do vitals, although we can. Nevertheless, when a nurse wants to let me do something under her supervision I jump at the chance and it is not illegal.

"No day but today"

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Specializes in OR-ICU.
Lol...I am AWARE of my scope, as well as the art of delegation...and handling medicine is a "NO NO" for unlicensed personnel...Just like you think my ASSUMPTION of your respect for the scope is WRONG...please don't lecture me on scope of care, and what is WRONG...Again, my original post states what is in "scope" that is if FACILITY policy...ie "by the book." Again, your TONE sounds like you continue to undermine people with limited scopes, as well as the nurse who DELEGATE CORRECTLY...like myself...No adverse reactions, near misses, or lawsuits or license revocation because I HONOR MY LICENSE, as well as RESPECT MY TEAM...that is what being a part of a healthcare team is all about...working together WITHIN ACCEPTABLE SCOPE and FACILITY POLICY, NOT cutting corners...again, your comments are coming from a place of NO EXPERIENCE or inadequate experience respecting the healthcare team...you still have a lot to learn, in my opinion.

Why dont you re read your post. You are the one who insinuated that since one can learn a skill, its good enough for you if your around to watch them perform the skill. That was the gist of your argument. My argument was simple, a team member perform task that is within the scope of their work. Nothing more. You don't do anything that you weren't formally trained/educated or licensed to do. I never undermined anyone. You on the other hand, launched personal attacks instead of arguing the facts. Sigh....

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Specializes in OR-ICU.
In my hospital it is allowed. CNAs otherwise known as techs insert foleys, start IVs, do EKGs etc in the ER and on some med surge floors. Under no circumstances would anyone but a nurse administer medication of any kind. On my floor we are too busy getting people up and down and up and down to do Much else...we don't even do vitals, although we can. Nevertheless, when a nurse wants to let me do something under her supervision I jump at the chance and it is not illegal.

"No day but today"

Your hospital allows CNA to start IVs, EKG, Insert Foleys etc? Wow.

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Sorry aviator but I disagree. While the RN is who actually does the assessments the iv's, administers the medications, etc, the CNA in her "limited scope of practice" as you call it, is the one who gets her resident up in the morning for bathes, gets dressed, breakfast and morning activities, changes the bed, straightens the room, spends time with the resident and their family. The CNA has a connection that sometimes the RN doesn't even get to have because what they do is actually the limited part of the care. I'm not saying it is not important but it is true that most of the patient daily care is done by the CNA while the RN charts and takes care of other patients. Being a CNA opens doors in so many ways, deign with the patient, families, other CNA's, nurses, their institution, the way things are done, how Mary maybe like to bathe before bed and Becky likes to wear her pink scarf to the dimming room that night for dinner. How old Larry's grand kids are and how long until they visit again. The experience being a CNA brings is absolutely invaluable and no one can take that away from who has it. Then before bed her resident likes to say a prayer and loves that her CNA can be the one saying it with her. This is priceless. This CNA will become the best nurse because she sees her resident as much more than a patient but a family member and manages to give that kind of care to every resident she has to.[/quote']

I love it!

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While I agree "practicing" things are a "no no" (as you said), lemme CLARIFY the scope of a CNA:

In fundamentals class, you practice ADLS, foley insertion, foley care, vitals, etc. As a CNA, my first job was in a community hospital's ER. I put foleys in using the sterile technique, EKGs, phlebotomy, even perfumed in codes (bagging and chest compressions), oral suctioning, point of care testing such as blood Glucose monitoring. Yes, a CNA can build upon their "scope" and based on the experiences of my CNAs, if they were competent in aspects of advanced care, I DELEGATED to them...and I still do. I'm not sure how long you have been in your nursing career, but from my "limited" scope of CNA to my "limited" scope of an LPN to a RN, I have been able to expand my scope based on my institutions that saw the value of a competent individual, and you will have plenty of people that you are going to have to delegate to, so please get to know them and RESPECT their experience, so you will be able to work as a team. As for the poster before you, I would have her help on my team. And if facility policy, if she is able to put in the foley, the by all means I would be in the room and be with the individual, have them "practice" with me, then, when I'm confident, I can sign off her competency...that's how effective delegation works. I rather uplift and help members of my healthcare team maximize their skills, especially if the facility allows...makes better patient care when team work is involved...and each time I have utilized delegation, there have been ZERO adverse effects, near misses or misses that effected the pt...they actually GOT BETTER. So SAFE effective DELEGATION can work.

Agree 100%!!!

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Scopes of practice differs by state, and facilities. What is allowed in one state may not be allowed in another and the same goes for facilities.

I haven't met a person yet who said that they didn't benefit from having CNA experience helping them in NS. And those who are in NS now and those who are new grads and working at their first nursing job, who never had CNA experience said that they wished they did.

My mother has been a CNA for over15 years and worked numerous types of positions in healthcare all except nursing she is currently department head of medical records and central supply at a LTC facility and just with her background she is very knowledgeable about a lot of things. Ive witnessed RN's coming to her office asking her for help or advice about how to do their job. I'm currently in my second semester of LPN school and I get help from her about anything from procedures to care plans.

I think its insulting to assume that just because you know how to do something you dont know why! Delegating is making sure that they understand every aspect as well.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
Scopes of practice differs by state, and facilities. What is allowed in one state may not be allowed in another and the same goes for facilities.

I haven't met a person yet who said that they didn't benefit from having CNA experience helping them in NS. And those who are in NS now and those who are new grads and working at their first nursing job, who never had CNA experience said that they wished they did.

My mother has been a CNA for over15 years and worked numerous types of positions in healthcare all except nursing she is currently department head of medical records and central supply at a LTC facility and just with her background she is very knowledgeable about a lot of things. Ive witnessed RN's coming to her office asking her for help or advice about how to do their job. I'm currently in my second semester of LPN school and I get help from her about anything from procedures to care plans.

I think its insulting to assume that just because you know how to do something you dont know why! Delegating is making sure that they understand every aspect as well.

^^^Thank You!!!

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