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$8.25 an hour...*** is this normal?

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Specializes in Wound Care. Has 1 years experience.

People are lined up around the block to be CNAs. What isn't appealing about a job that requires only a month's worth of schooling? You get to wear scrubs! And a name tag! And a stethoscope! And sometimes a clipboard to record vitals!

Corporations love us because we do rough work for piddly pay. And heck, if we get bitter and quit... the next CNA in line gets their scrubs and name tag and the cycle starts again!

You could hire two "PCT's" for the price of one LVN! It's just like truckinusa says... Why hire someone who costs more when there are others who are willing to work practically for free?

I have realized over the years that a business will figure out your worth to them. Your worth can be determined by a number of factors like can you be replaced easily, time to retrain a new person, educational requirements, etc. A lot of jobs are undesireable, like trucking or CNA work. With the economy in bad shape everyone is doing things that they wouldn't normally do to survive. It is making these cruddy jobs worse in my opinion. I have chosen to educate myself so I don't have to deal with crappy choices in a not so desireable occupation.

Alisonisayoshi, LVN

Specializes in LTC.

Same wages in Northern California! But alas I need the patient care experience to be competitive post RN graduation :(. So I will be working for nothing and taking loans, grants, and scholarships.

avi8tor69

Specializes in OR-ICU. Has 16 years experience.

My mom in law retired as a CNA a few years back. She was forced to retire because she was making $19 something an hour and they had a line of happy $8.25 an hour applicants.

BTW you don't really need to be a CNA to be an RN nor will that help. For experience purposes, half of your first semester in nursing school is CNA stuff. All the things CNA do (ADLs, Blood press etc), they will teach you in nursing school. I had zero medical background when I started nursing school and never had an issue in clinical. I did however treated the CNAs with respect and in return they were almost always helping me unlike some witches in our class who disdained the CNAs.

Straight No Chaser, ASN, LPN

Specializes in Sub-Acute. Has 5 years experience.

BTW you don't really need to be a CNA to be an RN nor will that help

Disagree. It will help immensely. You'll be comfortable with patients and if you work in a hospital you will learn a lot. CNAs going into nursing programs often times have a huge leg up on the other students. Not saying it will make a big difference ( besides knowing what it's like) once you're a nurse but certainly will help through school. :)

"No day but today"

avi8tor69

Specializes in OR-ICU. Has 16 years experience.

Again no disrespect to CNAs because I think they are great. But honestly, how will becoming a CNA help. A CNA's scope of work is limited. Its ADL's and blood pressure.

Graduation2016

Specializes in OB.

Sorry aviator but I disagree. While the RN is who actually does the assessments, the iv's, administers the medications, etc, the CNA in her "limited scope of practice" as you call it, is the one who gets her resident up in the morning for bathes, gets dressed, breakfast and morning activities, changes the bed, straightens the room, spends time with the resident and their family. The CNA has a connection that sometimes the RN doesn't even get to have because what they do is actually the limited part of the care. I'm not saying it is not important but it is true that most of the patient daily care is done by the CNA while the RN charts and takes care of other patients. Being a CNA opens doors in so many ways, deign with the patient, families, other CNA's, nurses, their institution, the way things are done, how Mary maybe like to bathe before bed and Becky likes to wear her pink scarf to the dimming room that night for dinner. How old Larry's grand kids are and how long until they visit again. The experience being a CNA brings is absolutely invaluable and no one can take that away from who has it. Then before bed her resident likes to say a prayer and loves that her CNA can be the one saying it with her. This is priceless. This CNA will become the best nurse because she sees her resident as much more than a patient but a family member and manages to give that kind of care to every resident she has to.

avi8tor69

Specializes in OR-ICU. Has 16 years experience.

What you said was awesome. However, in reality, in nursing school, while ADLs are important and necessary, there are many facets of nursing that you will face. Now knowing ADLs will probably help you finish a tad earlier, however you will still have to contend with med administration, drug research, labs, pathophysiology research, care plan coordination etc etc. and while bonding with your patient is terrific and essential, you may in the end find yourself out of time.

Straight No Chaser, ASN, LPN

Specializes in Sub-Acute. Has 5 years experience.

Again no disrespect to CNAs because I think they are great. But honestly' date=' how will becoming a CNA help. A CNA's scope of work is limited. Its ADL's and blood pressure.[/quote']

It helps by being around nurses all day everyday. I've learned soon much about diagnosis, meds, symptoms, dressing changes, the list goes on and on. My nurses teach me, some let me practice things (removing staples etc) I could insert a Foley I've seen it done and assisted so many times. I've had to help apply wound vacs and have had to show some nurses how the plastic goes on (don't know the name) I've had dcos let me watch procedures, (saw a ladies calf muscle last week ....sooo cool )anywho you get my drift. It's also much much more than " adls and blood pressure"

avi8tor69

Specializes in OR-ICU. Has 16 years experience.

It's great your learning nursing stuff but again your scope as a CNA is limited. And knowing your limits is essential in providing safe and competent care. It's not just knowing how to do it but the how and why. Foley insertion is a sterile procedure that only a nurse should be doing. Nurses who let you practice things that are not within your scope as a CNA....well that's a big NO NO.

LadyFree28, BSN, RN

Specializes in Pediatrics, Rehab, Trauma. Has 10 years experience.

It's great your learning nursing stuff but again your scope as a CNA is limited. And knowing your limits is essential in providing safe and competent care. It's not just knowing how to do it but the how and why. Foley insertion is a sterile procedure that only a nurse should be doing. Nurses who let you practice things that are not within your scope as a CNA....well that's a big NO NO.

While I agree "practicing" things are a "no no" (as you said), lemme CLARIFY the scope of a CNA:

In fundamentals class, you practice ADLS, foley insertion, foley care, vitals, etc. As a CNA, my first job was in a community hospital's ER. I put foleys in using the sterile technique, EKGs, phlebotomy, even perfumed in codes (bagging and chest compressions), oral suctioning, point of care testing such as blood Glucose monitoring. Yes, a CNA can build upon their "scope" and based on the experiences of my CNAs, if they were competent in aspects of advanced care, I DELEGATED to them...and I still do. I'm not sure how long you have been in your nursing career, but from my "limited" scope of CNA to my "limited" scope of an LPN to a RN, I have been able to expand my scope based on my institutions that saw the value of a competent individual, and you will have plenty of people that you are going to have to delegate to, so please get to know them and RESPECT their experience, so you will be able to work as a team. As for the poster before you, I would have her help on my team. And if facility policy, if she is able to put in the foley, the by all means I would be in the room and be with the individual, have them "practice" with me, then, when I'm confident, I can sign off her competency...that's how effective delegation works. I rather uplift and help members of my healthcare team maximize their skills, especially if the facility allows...makes better patient care when team work is involved...and each time I have utilized delegation, there have been ZERO adverse effects, near misses or misses that effected the pt...they actually GOT BETTER. So SAFE effective DELEGATION can work.

Straight No Chaser, ASN, LPN

Specializes in Sub-Acute. Has 5 years experience.

Perhaps practicing is the wrong word. I get experience I get taught. My nurses allow me to learn and they're allowed to have me do the things I've done. All I'm Saying is being a CNA is helping me and will continue to help me through school. I doubt many new students have experienced what I've been privileged to learn.

"No day but today"

Straight No Chaser, ASN, LPN

Specializes in Sub-Acute. Has 5 years experience.

While I agree "practicing" things are a "no no" (as you said), lemme CLARIFY the scope of a CNA:

In fundamentals class, you practice ADLS, foley insertion, foley care, vitals, etc. As a CNA, my first job was in a community hospital's ER. I put foleys in using the sterile technique, EKGs, phlebotomy, even perfumed in codes (bagging and chest compressions), oral suctioning, point of care testing such as blood Glucose monitoring. Yes, a CNA can build upon their "scope" and based on the experiences of my CNAs, if they were competent in aspects of advanced care, I DELEGATED to them...and I still do. I'm not sure how long you have been in your nursing career, but from my "limited" scope of CNA to my "limited" scope of an LPN to a RN, I have been able to expand my scope based on my institutions that saw the value of a competent individual, and you will have plenty of people that you are going to have to delegate to, so please get to know them and RESPECT their experience, so you will be able to work as a team. As for the poster before you, I would have her help on my team. And if facility policy, if she is able to put in the foley, the by all means I would be in the room and be with the individual, have them "practice" with me, then, when I'm confident, I can sign off her competency...that's how effective delegation works. I rather uplift and help members of my healthcare team maximize their skills, especially if the facility allows...makes better patient care when team work is involved...and each time I have utilized delegation, there have been ZERO adverse effects, near misses or misses that effected the pt...they actually GOT BETTER. So SAFE effective DELEGATION can work.

Bless you You're like the nurses I cherish so much at the hospital I work in.

"No day but today"

avi8tor69

Specializes in OR-ICU. Has 16 years experience.

While I agree "practicing" things are a "no no" (as you said), lemme CLARIFY the scope of a CNA:

In fundamentals class, you practice ADLS, foley insertion, foley care, vitals, etc. As a CNA, my first job was in a community hospital's ER. I put foleys in using the sterile technique, EKGs, phlebotomy, even perfumed in codes (bagging and chest compressions), oral suctioning, point of care testing such as blood Glucose monitoring. Yes, a CNA can build upon their "scope" and based on the experiences of my CNAs, if they were competent in aspects of advanced care, I DELEGATED to them...and I still do. I'm not sure how long you have been in your nursing career, but from my "limited" scope of CNA to my "limited" scope of an LPN to a RN, I have been able to expand my scope based on my institutions that saw the value of a competent individual, and you will have plenty of people that you are going to have to delegate to, so please get to know them and RESPECT their experience, so you will be able to work as a team. As for the poster before you, I would have her help on my team. And if facility policy, if she is able to put in the foley, the by all means I would be in the room and be with the individual, have them "practice" with me, then, when I'm confident, I can sign off her competency...that's how effective delegation works. I rather uplift and help members of my healthcare team maximize their skills, especially if the facility allows...makes better patient care when team work is involved...and each time I have utilized delegation, there have been ZERO adverse effects, near misses or misses that effected the pt...they actually GOT BETTER. So SAFE effective DELEGATION can work.

As a nurse you delegate to a CNA, work that is within the scope of what a CNA is legally allowed to do and what the facility allows them to do. Anyone can insert a Foley. Patients do that at home etc. You can very well teach a CNA to hang a piggyback or do IV push because those are skills that can be taught easily. But you do not do that because that is illegal and just wrong. Those are not within the scope of what a CNA can do. Sure they can learn all that but you do not let anyone who are not suppose to do those things just because they learned how to do them. I know these sort of things happen all the time and in some cases have become the "norm" due to the workload of nurses. But that doesn't mean that is legally acceptable. As a nurse we have a responsibility to be aware of the limits of care of our team members. Experience alone just doesn't cut it. Nurses have lost their licenses because of erroneous assumptions.

BTW I've always respected them. You just assumed wrong.

HeartsOpenWide, RN

Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.

I don't think that being a CNA before an RN is that much help in the sense that it should be required because of the "skill set" very little actual nursing care in related to what a CNA does, although you do NEED the tasks of a CNA (in my hospital, there are not always enough aids to to around on the M/S floor and nurses have to do CNA tasks) its easily and quickly learned in the first part of the first semester.

That being said, what I do see as a major benefit of having prior CNA experience when starting nursing school is, the already developed comfort level around patients. I was not a CNA but a CMA prior to nursing school; when everyone was terrified to simply go in and get vitals on the first day of clinical, I walked right in like I owned the place.

Edited by HeartsOpenWide

LadyFree28, BSN, RN

Specializes in Pediatrics, Rehab, Trauma. Has 10 years experience.

As a nurse you delegate to a CNA, work that is within the scope of what a CNA is legally allowed to do and what the facility allows them to do. Anyone can insert a Foley. Patients do that at home etc. You can very well teach a CNA to hang a piggyback or do IV push because those are skills that can be taught easily. But you do not do that because that is illegal and just wrong. Those are not within the scope of what a CNA can do. Sure they can learn all that but you do not let anyone who are not suppose to do those things just because they learned how to do them. I know these sort of things happen all the time and in some cases have become the "norm" due to the workload of nurses. But that doesn't mean that is legally acceptable. As a nurse we have a responsibility to be aware of the limits of care of our team members. Experience alone just doesn't cut it. Nurses have lost their licenses because of erroneous assumptions.

BTW I've always respected them. You just assumed wrong.

Lol...I am AWARE of my scope, as well as the art of delegation...and handling medicine is a "NO NO" for unlicensed personnel...Just like you think my ASSUMPTION of your respect for the scope is WRONG...please don't lecture me on scope of care, and what is WRONG...Again, my original post states what is in "scope" that is if FACILITY policy...ie "by the book." Again, your TONE sounds like you continue to undermine people with limited scopes, as well as the nurse who DELEGATE CORRECTLY...like myself...No adverse reactions, near misses, or lawsuits or license revocation because I HONOR MY LICENSE, as well as RESPECT MY TEAM...that is what being a part of a healthcare team is all about...working together WITHIN ACCEPTABLE SCOPE and FACILITY POLICY, NOT cutting corners...again, your comments are coming from a place of NO EXPERIENCE or inadequate experience respecting the healthcare team...you still have a lot to learn, in my opinion.

LadyFree28, BSN, RN

Specializes in Pediatrics, Rehab, Trauma. Has 10 years experience.

Bless you You're like the nurses I cherish so much at the hospital I work in.

"No day but today"

Your welcome...what the poster really needs to do is learn about policy...if you are following hospital policy and doing skilled care and are able to get competency, you are allowed to do those skills...but a lot of people get nursing school "tunnel vision" which I believe leads to lack of their healthcare team, leading to isolation and burnout in those early years...

But to not contribute to hijacking and detailing the thread, being a CNA may provide a comfort zone, however, remember to wear your nursing student hat in nursing school! :)

Straight No Chaser, ASN, LPN

Specializes in Sub-Acute. Has 5 years experience.

Your welcome...what the poster really needs to do is learn about policy...if you are following hospital policy and doing skilled care and are able to get competency, you are allowed to do those skills...but a lot of people get nursing school "tunnel vision" which I believe leads to lack of their healthcare team, leading to isolation and burnout in those early years...

But to not contribute to hijacking and detailing the thread, being a CNA may provide a comfort zone, however, remember to wear your nursing student hat in nursing school! :)

Good advise. I am a semester or two away but will keep it in mind. It's the comfort zone I'm talking about, everyone's different but I feel like it will help me immensely being comfortable with patients, names of meds, labs, why labs are ordered, etc etc.i remember being HORRIFIED at the thought of seeing someone naked and am glad all of that is over with and I can focus on the material. :-)

"No day but today"

Straight No Chaser, ASN, LPN

Specializes in Sub-Acute. Has 5 years experience.

As a nurse you delegate to a CNA, work that is within the scope of what a CNA is legally allowed to do and what the facility allows them to do. Anyone can insert a Foley. Patients do that at home etc. You can very well teach a CNA to hang a piggyback or do IV push because those are skills that can be taught easily. But you do not do that because that is illegal and just wrong. Those are not within the scope of what a CNA can do. Sure they can learn all that but you do not let anyone who are not suppose to do those things just because they learned how to do them. I know these sort of things happen all the time and in some cases have become the "norm" due to the workload of nurses. But that doesn't mean that is legally acceptable. As a nurse we have a responsibility to be aware of the limits of care of our team members. Experience alone just doesn't cut it. Nurses have lost their licenses because of erroneous assumptions.

BTW I've always respected them. You just assumed wrong.

In my hospital it is allowed. CNAs otherwise known as techs insert foleys, start IVs, do EKGs etc in the ER and on some med surge floors. Under no circumstances would anyone but a nurse administer medication of any kind. On my floor we are too busy getting people up and down and up and down to do Much else...we don't even do vitals, although we can. Nevertheless, when a nurse wants to let me do something under her supervision I jump at the chance and it is not illegal.

"No day but today"