Hope for bullying?

ladedah1, BSN, RN · Aug 26, 2022

Hasn't ever really been a problem on my unit (we're definitely of the whole-unit only survives as one mentality), so I wouldn't really know. Heaven help the person who thinks that they can try to bully me or my fellow coworkers... as we're certainly not push-overs, either ?

Ioreth, BSN, RN · Aug 26, 2022

I came here to write about what I think is a nurse bullying incident I'm facing on my own unit, which I will shortly. I'm also an older in age but newish nurse. It has come and go on my unit, and most of the time I don't recognize it as bullying until either it ends or I come here to talk about the experience. I took a class on this offered by my workplace as a new grad and they called it lateral violence. That makes it seem like a big splashy thing, but in my experience, it has been much more subtle. Part of that may be that I tend to internalize criticism, so I tend to actually join the bully in beating myself up. I don't have an answer to nurse bullying right now, as I am looking for ways to deal with it as well. I just want you to know that it is unfortunately very real in school and in the workplace. As far as the age of the aggressor, I have often found it to be more experienced nurses that are either near my age and just a little younger or more experienced nurses that are much younger than me.

HiddenAngels · Aug 27, 2022

8 hours ago, CShel said:

I am an older nursing student and much of my class is between 19-24 years old. I know from my own kids (15 and 20) that they are MUCH more sensitive about recognizing and stopping bullying behavior because the schools have done a much better job educating kids about it.

My question is this: do you as a nurse find that you have seen a change in the prevalence of bullying tolerance on your units due to the influx of younger nurses? I am really hoping that it crosses into nursing.

Set them straight from the gate. Eliminate it out of your life. As long as they're not bullying you, don't worry about it. Nursing is a get in where you fit in kind of experience. Everyone must learn to stand up for themselves.

Davey Do · Aug 27, 2022

17 hours ago, CShel said:

My question is this: do you as a nurse find that you have seen a change in the prevalence of bullying tolerance on your units due to the influx of younger nurses?

Bullying always has been and will always be used as a coping mechanism as long as there is those with low self-esteem.

To put another down makes those with low self-esteem feel less pain about themselves. No one who is okay with who they are will bully because they have no need to prove themselves.

15 hours ago, Ioreth said:

it has been much more subtle

One subtle method of bullying is being passive-aggressive where we say one thing but are inferring another. A method to address the inference is by not giving it credence. Once a remark is given attention, it gives it power.

Another method of addressing a subtle passive-aggressive remark is by taking, not the defensive, but the offensive. Call the culprit out on their exact words and watch them become defensive.

Bullying a bully often works in quelling the behavior. Low self-esteemed bullies often have Achilles tendons in supporting the premise of their comments.

And remember what Maya Angelou said: "Once a person shows you who they are the first time, believe them."

Bullies rarely face their innermost fears resulting in illuminating revelations and experience a change of consciousness.

CShel, ASN · Aug 27, 2022

9 hours ago, HiddenAngels said:

Set them straight from the gate. Eliminate it out of your life. As long as they're not bullying you, don't worry about it. Nursing is a get in where you fit in kind of experience. Everyone must learn to stand up for themselves.

I am not a bullying target, really, because I am older, not shy, a people person and (thanks to my ex-husband) really good at peaceable conflict resolution. On my last clinical rotation, a nurse came to talk to me about something because she thought I was the clinical instructor LOL.

While I agree that everyone must learn to stand up for themselves, I don't think anything is going to change if everyone takes the attitude "As long as they're not bullying you, don't worry about it".

I asked a friend in my nursing school who is 20 years old (she works as a PCA) if she has seen bullying and if she thinks the younger nurses are different because of school programs and such. She said "Oh yeah, I've seen someone get bullied and it got shut down and dealt with immediately."

I just wondered if any of you have seen the same or similar. We older healthcare professionals need to put a stop to it when we see it. It discourages people from entering the profession and Lord knows we need more people!

HiddenAngels · Aug 28, 2022

22 hours ago, CShel said:

We older healthcare professionals need to put a stop to it when we see it. It discourages people from entering the profession and Lord knows we need more people!

That's coddling. In this profession, it is imperative that a nurse speak up for themselves.

I did not mean we should sit by and watch bullying. No way. But in this profession, you HAVE to speak up for yourself.

CShel, ASN · Aug 28, 2022

I said "put a stop to it when we see it"

You said we should not "sit by and watch bullying"

How is what I said "coddling" and what you said is not?

Of COURSE people should learn to speak up for themselves - especially in nursing, because patients can become argumentative and aggressive, not mention dealing with families who may be subverting healthcare for your patient.

But there is no excuse whatsoever for people you work with - fellow nurses- to be condescending, unhelpful, rude, dismissive, or hostile. None. And when newer nurses come into the profession, they are awed and a intimidated by the more experienced nurses on the unit. It takes some time for new nurses to feel like REAL nurses, so in the beginning they are often not very confident. Helping them succeed at gaining confidence and stopping bullying in its tracks is not coddling.

HiddenAngels · Aug 29, 2022

On 8/28/2022 at 11:38 AM, CShel said:

I said "put a stop to it when we see it"

You said we should not "sit by and watch bullying"

How is what I said "coddling" and what you said is not?

Of COURSE people should learn to speak up for themselves - especially in nursing, because patients can become argumentative and aggressive, not mention dealing with families who may be subverting healthcare for your patient.

But there is no excuse whatsoever for people you work with - fellow nurses- to be condescending, unhelpful, rude, dismissive, or hostile. None. And when newer nurses come into the profession, they are awed and a intimidated by the more experienced nurses on the unit. It takes some time for new nurses to feel like REAL nurses, so in the beginning they are often not very confident. Helping them succeed at gaining confidence and stopping bullying in its tracks is not coddling.

I feel like you're bullying me right now (jk)?

See I still disagree with you tho. The point you're making is that you older nurses should put a stop to it when you see it. How will the other nurse learn to speak up for themselves or learn their limitations if someone always speaks up for them. We may be making the same point (not sure). When I said we can't sit back and watch, I meant let's give the the new nurse a chance and see if they will speak up for themselves, learn their way throught the woods, or we can teach them ways to be more assertive in the profession and not necessarily step in for them, there that's the difference.

Also I don't think it's always the older more experienced nurses that are bullying newbies. From my experience it's newer nurse < 3-5 years experience that act like the know-it-alls toward the newbies.

And another thing condescending, unhelpful, rude, and dismissive people may just be mean or introverted people and not necessarily bullies.

beachynurse, ASN, BSN · Aug 30, 2022

On 8/28/2022 at 11:38 AM, CShel said:

I said "put a stop to it when we see it"

You said we should not "sit by and watch bullying"

How is what I said "coddling" and what you said is not?

Of COURSE people should learn to speak up for themselves - especially in nursing, because patients can become argumentative and aggressive, not mention dealing with families who may be subverting healthcare for your patient.

But there is no excuse whatsoever for people you work with - fellow nurses- to be condescending, unhelpful, rude, dismissive, or hostile. None. And when newer nurses come into the profession, they are awed and a intimidated by the more experienced nurses on the unit. It takes some time for new nurses to feel like REAL nurses, so in the beginning they are often not very confident. Helping them succeed at gaining confidence and stopping bullying in its tracks is not coddling.

I agree with you. In my first hospital job, the older more experienced nurses were just awful. If they liked you, you were allowed in "the group" if they didn't they went for your jugular. A girl I went to nursing school with had gotten hired, and she didn't make the cut for "the group". At every opportunity, someone would berate her for something, or make something up that she did wrong to get her fired. To this day, I feel guilty that I didn't stand up for her. I know I am stronger than that, my father was a bully, and I I was the only one in the family that wasn't afraid to stand up to him. Why couldn't I stand up for her? After all, the only thing a bully respects is someone that will bully them back, and not take their s***.

DavidFR, BSN, MSN, RN · Aug 30, 2022

On 8/26/2022 at 11:39 PM, CShel said:

I am an older nursing student and much of my class is between 19-24 years old. I know from my own kids (15 and 20) that they are MUCH more sensitive about recognizing and stopping bullying behavior because the schools have done a much better job educating kids about it.

My question is this: do you as a nurse find that you have seen a change in the prevalence of bullying tolerance on your units due to the influx of younger nurses? I am really hoping that it crosses into nursing.

I started my training in 1983 and bullying was normal. Many older staff thought it was their right to humiliate students and younger staff as they had been in their day, and so the cycle continued.

These days we have much more awareness of mental health issues, occupational health services are more alert to psychological wellbeing and human resources departments are hotter on workplace bullying. We still have a long way to go but yes, in my view as a dinosaur, it's alot better today.

toomuchbaloney · Aug 30, 2022

Bullying is a part of American culture, isn't it?