I have this in the ER thread because I am in ER. Therefore with the acuity levels, "conveniences" are not, or shouldn't be a hindrance to patient care. I'll try to make this short, I a really quite depressed about this topic.
First, I am a male RN. I realize that many/ most will not admit to what I am implying here.
For one, always take the patients wishes into consideration, no problem, I am a professional, or at least id like to be treated like one. Why is it that female patients are always catered to? Pelvic exam, cath etc...??? Why am I immediately presumed "not qualified" to be involved with these procedures? I know what some of the "reasons" that will be stated.
I have passed background checks, got my RN license, am a decent and respected individual, but I am presumed to be a danger? to female patients?? I say "I and me" meaning males in general.
With the amount of males in nursing now, does anyone EVER assume that the guy would like to have a male nurse doing a cath? No. We "presume" and follow stereotypes. "Oh guys don't care..." etc. YET, we exclude males from certain care tasks when the female patient hasn't voiced an aversion at all. Again, "ask if the female would mind???" Really?? Does anyone ask the male "if he would mind a female being in there?" I'm sure some will say something like " well females have been nursing for a long time and the males just know that they have to deal with it..." Well, males are nurses now, where is the consistency?? Male trauma patients come in and no one hesitates in removing all clothing, just let it alll hang out and many times don't even get them covered up in a reasonable amount of time. Inversely, the female trauma comes in, and soon it's " oh it's a female, us girls will go in and do such and such" or they won't remove the clothing as quickly or as openly as they will on a guys, and sometimes I have seen them not remove pants because they "didn't want to ruin her clothes!" What?!?!
And by the way, no one rushes in and saves granny from a male giving her an enema. DOUBLE STANDARS ABOUND. Makes me sick and depressed. How will I advance in professional practice with all the "assumed" problems with males and female patients?
I will say, I don't care. The girls can do ALL the patients, male and female, caths enemas, pelvis, for all I care. But when the selectivity comes out it is just plain WRONG, and it IS discrimination.
One more point; it is wise to avoid being alone with a female patient for the "private" tasks...reason being, all that it would take it 1 female making an accusation and my entire career could be over. Inversely, is a male patient made a complaint against a female nurse it wouldn't even be taken seriously.
Women 'cater' to other women. But when it comes to males, we run in, rip their clothes off, leave their junk flapping in the breeze, man handle their mandingo's and never once ask a male patient if they mind.
I'll give that there's def a double standard in patient care. If a guy was packing a Vienna sausage and a coworker makes a crack, it would probably be funny. If a male coworker made a crack about a females genitals, it would all be over.
Totally get it.
I still can't wrap my head around how this hinders professional growth. But I'll stop beating the dead horse and all those other stereotypes
No, no more policies. I am just looking for consistent behavior. I'm out, these threads become cloudy by subjective occurrences and it diverts from the principal set forth, too difficult. Perhaps this should be a male only topic. I do see the need to advocate for the male RN.
Thanks, I am done with this conversation.
I am not sure you are advocating for the male RN here. At least not this male RN, or the the men with whom I work. I have never heard a guy say "gee, I wish I could do more female foleys and some pelvic exams." Ever. Not once. There is a male nursing sub forum here. Maybe this theme of yours might get some traction over there.
And- regarding this impediment to your professional development: No. Just no. Look around at the rate that men get hired into advanced setting like the job you got straight out of school. And the percentage of male leaders and educators in this field. We are not an oppressed minority.
At one point in this thread, you expressed a that men and women should be treated the same: "Let's just treat males and females the same, whether they be a patient or an RN." Reality is we are not the same.
As far as your particular work environment: It's just a bit weird. I have travelled a bit, and worked in a half dozen ER's and not seen this. Generally, I go to a female co-worker, and ask for help. And, if my pt need something, I know about it before my co-workers anyway. Generally I know about it before it is ordered.
In general, I am better at lifts, restraints, and troubleshooting machinery than most of my female co-workers. No surprise- I am 6", 195#, and I maintain our electrical, plumbing, and vehicles at my house. My female co-workers think nothing of asking me for help in an area in which I have strength, and it doesn't bother me.
In one travel assignment, I worked with an rn who happened to be on the state BON. She gave me an interesting perspective when I asked her for help with a foley. She said that, given her experience hearing complaints on the board, that any guy who does a non-emergent foley is foolish.
Last but not least: I alway ask my pt's preference. Unfortunately, they often have no problem with me doing foleys and the like. This is kind of a bummer, as I really don't like doing them. And ladies- thank you soooooooo much for your help with this. If I can help in any way, please ask. Don't worry about aking me to do gender steriotypical stuff- I really don't mind.
I guess it would depend on the patient if they would prefer a women for a cath. I personally go to a female OB that is my preference so I would prefer a female if possible. I wouldn't take offense at that, it is partly cultural as others have said, and also many women have been victims of rape and sexual violence and may have PTSD or just prefer another woman. Some women go to male OB's so it may not bother them. I guess I would ask first, but why take it personally? That is a very small part of what a nurse does anyway! As to not cutting off women's clothes if it is not an emergency what is wrong with that. Many women spend a lot of money on clothes and as we know most women make less than men so why not save their clothes if at all possible! Likewise there is nothing wrong with saving a man's clothes too if it not an emergency!
I am not sure you are advocating for the male RN here. At least not this male RN, or the the men with whom I work. I have never heard a guy say "gee, I wish I could do more female foleys and some pelvic exams." Ever. Not once. There is a male nursing sub forum here. Maybe this theme of yours might get some traction over there.
And- regarding this impediment to your professional development: No. Just no. Look around at the rate that men get hired into advanced setting like the job you got straight out of school. And the percentage of male leaders and educators in this field. We are not an oppressed minority.
At one point in this thread, you expressed a that men and women should be treated the same: "Let's just treat males and females the same, whether they be a patient or an RN." Reality is we are not the same.
As far as your particular work environment: It's just a bit weird. I have travelled a bit, and worked in a half dozen ER's and not seen this. Generally, I go to a female co-worker, and ask for help. And, if my pt need something, I know about it before my co-workers anyway. Generally I know about it before it is ordered.
In general, I am better at lifts, restraints, and troubleshooting machinery than most of my female co-workers. No surprise- I am 6", 195#, and I maintain our electrical, plumbing, and vehicles at my house. My female co-workers think nothing of asking me for help in an area in which I have strength, and it doesn't bother me.
In one travel assignment, I worked with an rn who happened to be on the state BON. She gave me an interesting perspective when I asked her for help with a foley. She said that, given her experience hearing complaints on the board, that any guy who does a non-emergent foley is foolish.
Last but not least: I alway ask my pt's preference. Unfortunately, they often have no problem with me doing foleys and the like. This is kind of a bummer, as I really don't like doing them. And ladies- thank you soooooooo much for your help with this. If I can help in any way, please ask. Don't worry about aking me to do gender steriotypical stuff- I really don't mind.
In general, I am better at lifts, restraints, and troubleshooting machinery than most of my female co-workers. No surprise- I am 6", 195#, and I maintain our electrical, plumbing, and vehicles at my house. My female co-workers think nothing of asking me for help in an area in which I have strength, and it doesn't bother me.
I'm glad you said "in general", because troubleshooting machinery is a strong point of mine, and I often find myself more adept at this than my male colleagues. Not only do I tend to think in a very linear and logical fashion, but my previous professional experience was very technical.
OP, I think you should just take the bull by the horns and integrate checking in with your patients, male or female, into your practice. You need nobody's permission to do this.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I have this in the ER thread because I am in ER. Therefore with the acuity levels, "conveniences" are not, or shouldn't be a hindrance to patient care. I'll try to make this short, I a really quite depressed about this topic.
First, I am a male RN. I realize that many/ most will not admit to what I am implying here.
For one, always take the patients wishes into consideration, no problem, I am a professional, or at least id like to be treated like one. Why is it that female patients are always catered to? Pelvic exam, cath etc...??? Why am I immediately presumed "not qualified" to be involved with these procedures? I know what some of the "reasons" that will be stated.
I have passed background checks, got my RN license, am a decent and respected individual, but I am presumed to be a danger? to female patients?? I say "I and me" meaning males in general.
With the amount of males in nursing now, does anyone EVER assume that the guy would like to have a male nurse doing a cath? No. We "presume" and follow stereotypes. "Oh guys don't care..." etc. YET, we exclude males from certain care tasks when the female patient hasn't voiced an aversion at all. Again, "ask if the female would mind???" Really?? Does anyone ask the male "if he would mind a female being in there?" I'm sure some will say something like " well females have been nursing for a long time and the males just know that they have to deal with it..." Well, males are nurses now, where is the consistency??
Male trauma patients come in and no one hesitates in removing all clothing, just let it all hang out and many times don't even get them covered up in a reasonable amount of time. Inversely, the female trauma comes in, and soon it's " oh it's a female, us girls will go in and do such and such" or they won't remove the clothing as quickly or as openly as they will on a guys, and sometimes I have seen them not remove pants because they "didn't want to ruin her clothes!" What?!?!
And by the way, no one rushes in and saves granny from a male giving her an enema. DOUBLE STANDARDS ABOUND. Makes me sick and depressed. How will I advance in professional practice with all the "assumed" problems with males and female patients?
I will say, I don't care. The girls can do ALL the patients, male and female, caths enemas, pelvis, for all I care. But when the selectivity comes out it is just plain WRONG, and it IS discrimination.
One more point; it is wise to avoid being alone with a female patient for the "private" tasks...reason being, all that it would take it 1 female making an accusation and my entire career could be over. Inversely, is a male patient made a complaint against a female nurse it wouldn't even be taken seriously.
I am confused by your post. If your fellow nurses are that disrespectful to male trauma patients they are unprofessional. How does their unprofessional behavior affect you professional growth. It sounds to me like your co-workers have issues with you and you being male... it is unfair to assume that all female nurses feel the same way.
I am not sure why you feel that there are double standards and discrimination because no one minds a male nurse giving "Granny" and enema and that you feel your are being professionally denied opportunities with female patients that aren't elderly.
Many physicians prefer to have females accompany them with a pelvic as having a female "chaperone" to ensure the "safety" of the patient is the accepted practice. Even when an all male staff is present, which by the way I would be very careful to not schedule that way when I was a manager, females always have the right to ask for a female in the room. It makes them feel better....and it is all about the patient and not your personal feelings that you are being denied professional growth.
Many females are very uncomfortable having a strange man explore their private parts and are comforted by the presence of another female. While you feel that this is somehow limiting your practice... it is something you are going to have to adjust to for it is about the patient...not you. I will tell you that, for the most part, ALL female sexual assaults are handled by female nurses out of respect (and necessity) and trust me you should thank you fellow nurses for having to have to do this task.
I disagree that complaint of sexual assault from a male patient is ignored and I am sorry you feel that way...I wonder what your personal experiences have been that make you feel that this is the case. Your feelings that the nurses don't hesitate with the male patients to " let it all hang out" makes me feel the staff you work with is unprofessional. Your feelings of discrimination confuse me and if your present ED have staff that treat you this way ...maybe you should seek another position.
I have had just many male patients request female nurses to inset their foley caths for they do not want another male handling their private parts....of course you will be excluded from most pelvic exams as the presence of a female is preferred...your professional growth isn't apart of that equation, and males do not get pelvic exams. I always have another nurse accompany me on young male cath insertions it is just the right ting to do.
I have no problem with male nurses and I have never limited their patient load due to their anatomy different from females. As long as the male nurse shows the proper decorum, professional demeanor, and competence...they are just one of the girls as far as I am concerned.
A male nurse I worked with in an ICU was our "token male"(at the time a there were very few male nurses) his patient was wildly confused that night and chewed, yes chewed, how foley in half. As we all went in to help restrain the patient the male of the group inserted the foley. The next day when we came back a 7pm we were told that the patient had continued to have hallucinations for she insisted she was raped by a Mexican and held down by his blonde *******.
We fell out of chairs...this poor little old lady remembers a male of Hispanic origin inserting something in her private parts being held by four blonde females...we were horrified and the patient was terrified. That nurse never took care of he again she was terrified of him. Does this mean that this nurse was being discriminated against...NO! did this nurse understand...yes he did and he felt horrible that his poor little lady was traumatized....but this changed how all of us practiced that day. we were much more cognizant of certain tasks that might be difficult or confusing to the patient. He was a great nurse and realized it was all about the patient and not him.
It makes me uncomfortable that you feel that not performing these tasks on patients other than "Granny" is somehow hindering you or discrimination. I think your peers have issues with professionalism and maybe you need to speak to your manager.
But to use a single brush to paint that all nurses discriminate against male nurses and it is a right for male to do these tasks just isn't accurate. IMHO
I am confused by your post. If your fellow nurses are that disrespectful to male trauma patients they are unprofessional. How does their unprofessional behavior affect you professional growth. It sounds to me like your co-workers have issues with you and you being male... it is unfair to assume that all female nurses feel the same way.
I am not sure why you feel that there are double standards and discrimination because no one minds a male nurse giving "Granny" and enema and that you feel your are being professionally denied opportunities with female patients that aren't elderly.
Many physicians prefer to have females accompany them with a pelvic as having a female "chaperone" to ensure the "safety" of the patient is the accepted practice. Even when an all male staff is present, which by the way I would be very careful to not schedule that way when I was a manager, females always have the right to ask for a female in the room. It makes them feel better....and it is all about the patient and not your personal feelings that you are being denied professional growth.
Many females are very uncomfortable having a strange man explore their private parts and are comforted by the presence of another female. While you feel that this is somehow limiting your practice... it is something you are going to have to adjust to for it is about the patient...not you. I will tell you that, for the most part, ALL female sexual assaults are handled by female nurses out of respect (and necessity) and trust me you should thank you fellow nurses for having to have to do this task.
I disagree that complaint of sexual assault from a male patient is ignored and I am sorry you feel that way...I wonder what your personal experiences have been that make you feel that this is the case. Your feelings that the nurses don't hesitate with the male patients to " let it all hang out" makes me feel the staff you work with is unprofessional. Your feelings of discrimination confuse me and if your present ED have staff that treat you this way ...maybe you should seek another position.
I have had just many male patients request female nurses to inset their foley caths for they do not want another male handling their private parts....of course you will be excluded from most pelvic exams as the presence of a female is preferred...your professional growth isn't apart of that equation, and males do not get pelvic exams. I always have another nurse accompany me on young male cath insertions it is just the right ting to do.
I have no problem with male nurses and I have never limited their patient load due to their anatomy different from females. As long as the male nurse shows the proper decorum, professional demeanor, and competence...they are just one of the girls as far as I am concerned.
A male nurse I worked with in an ICU was our "token male"(at the time a there were very few male nurses) his patient was wildly confused that night and chewed, yes chewed, how foley in half. As we all went in to help restrain the patient the male of the group inserted the foley. The next day when we came back a 7pm we were told that the patient had continued to have hallucinations for she insisted she was raped by a Mexican and held down by his blonde *******.
We fell out of chairs...this poor little old lady remembers a male of Hispanic origin inserting something in her private parts being held by four blonde females...we were horrified and the patient was terrified. That nurse never took care of he again she was terrified of him. Does this mean that this nurse was being discriminated against...NO! did this nurse understand...yes he did and he felt horrible that his poor little lady was traumatized....but this changed how all of us practiced that day. we were much more cognizant of certain tasks that might be difficult or confusing to the patient. He was a great nurse and realized it was all about the patient and not him.
It makes me uncomfortable that you feel that not performing these tasks on patients other than "Granny" is somehow hindering you or discrimination. I think your peers have issues with professionalism and maybe you need to speak to your manager.
But to use a single brush to paint that all nurses discriminate against male nurses and it is a right for male to do these tasks just isn't accurate. IMHO
I'll be the first to admit that I have had a difficult time articulating myself, but your grammar is bad, I am not sure what your point is...
I'm glad you said "in general", because troubleshooting machinery is a strong point of mine, and I often find myself more adept at this than my male colleagues. Not only do I tend to think in a very linear and logical fashion, but my previous professional experience was very technical.
OP, I think you should just take the bull by the horns and integrate checking in with your patients, male or female, into your practice. You need nobody's permission to do this.
Women 'cater' to other women. But when it comes to males, we run in, rip their clothes off, leave their junk flapping in the breeze, man handle their mandingo's and never once ask a male patient if they mind.
I'll give that there's def a double standard in patient care. If a guy was packing a Vienna sausage and a coworker makes a crack, it would probably be funny. If a male coworker made a crack about a females genitals, it would all be over.
Totally get it.
I still can't wrap my head around how this hinders professional growth. But I'll stop beating the dead horse and all those other stereotypes
Thank you sassy5d... Your response is a breath of fresh air!!! This is ALL that I was hoping for, and all that is required to effect change. So many, even on here, squirm and point to something other than what I am focusing on. You have bluntly articulated what I was implying... Maybe I should have just been BOLD and put it out there...but I have a sneaking suspicion that there would still be those who wAnt to avoid the topic, and divert into other areas.
How does it hinder professional growth? Let me continue to keep it simple; if I have no clinical experience with it, you cannot expect me to be "on my game when the chips are down." It's not about a specific issue, it's about being well rounded as an RN.
Women 'cater' to other women. But when it comes to males, we run in, rip their clothes off, leave their junk flapping in the breeze, man handle their mandingo's and never once ask a male patient if they mind.
I'll give that there's def a double standard in patient care. If a guy was packing a Vienna sausage and a coworker makes a crack, it would probably be funny. If a male coworker made a crack about a females genitals, it would all be over.
Totally get it.
I will take the next step, this is what is was heading for. I experienced disgusting conduct this past week by my female coworkers that pushed me to the point where I had to voice this. Joe Shmoe had a Vienna and the nurses working were so fascinated that I couldn't get near the patient. "Vienna boy needs a foley".... Holy crap I was almost trampled by the female wanting to get to the foley kit. Then, her partner had to evaluate the situation...then they had to ask another female nurse of this foley was adequate!!!!! I was embarrassed for them! What a bunch of ****!!! I would lose my job over conduct like that. Were they "obvious, or voicing their delight?" NO, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see things for what they are...but my point is that I would lose my job/life over conduct like this! With this in mind, get over the defending women BS...enough is enough...if you don't see what I am saying, then you are guilty of the same.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I'll be the first to admit that I have had a difficult time articulating myself, but your grammar is bad, I am not sure what your point is...
Really? You felt you understood nothing. Interesting....I was trying to be polite and maybe my message got garbled.
Let me clarify.
I think your co-workers are unprofessional if they truly behave in this matter.
Joe Shmoe had a Vienna and the nurses working were so fascinated that I couldn't get near the patient. "Vienna boy needs a foley".... Holy crap I was almost trampled by the female wanting to get to the foley kit. Then, her partner had to evaluate the situation...then they had to ask another female nurse of this foley was adequate!!!!! I was embarrassed for them!
If I was their manager they would be fired on the spot and reported to the BON being unprofessional and for conduct unbecoming a professional nurse.
If this is the culture where you work....I suggest you find another position.
Your insistence that your growth is hindered by limited by access to females other than the elderly females is frankly, disconcerting....as a female it would make me uncomfortable. If I had a choice I would request a female stranger over a male stranger for these intimate tasks.
Patients have the right to choose their caregiver. There are times a male caregivers is inappropriate when caring for females and male nurses need to understand these preferences and circumstances.....for it is, after all, not about you. It is, however, all about the patient. Even confused patients need to be considered carefully with the use of male staff for it is unfair to allow them in their confusion to think they were sexually assaulted because a male was in a place that, in their mind, they did not belong.
ANY behavior like what you describe is unprofessional and any nurse that behaves this way should be reprimanded, counseled and fired.
All patients must be protected, not just females. Certain considerations are given to females is a fact due to the intimate nature of these tasks which in no way discriminates against male nurses. ALL PATIENTS modesty and privacy must be respected at all times. As I have said it is, after all, about the patient.
Whoa. I've been putting foley's in 10 + years and I still can't get them all. Male or female.
I don't think my professional growth has anything to do with foley's.
I can see why you'd be uncomfortable about females making it a point to see a Mandingo. Or talking about a Mandingo.. Perhaps you should have just pointed this out instead of circling and playing a word game of 'ah, not that but you're getting warmer'
This is open discussion here.. You don't need to beat around, pun intended, the 'bush' lol
exit96
425 Posts
Thank you.