Hindrance to professional growth

[exit96]

I have this in the ER thread because I am in ER. Therefore with the acuity levels, "conveniences" are not, or shouldn't be a hindrance to patient care. I'll try to make this short, I a really quite depressed about this topic.

First, I am a male RN. I realize that many/ most will not admit to what I am implying here.

For one, always take the patients wishes into consideration, no problem, I am a professional, or at least id like to be treated like one. Why is it that female patients are always catered to? Pelvic exam, cath etc...??? Why am I immediately presumed "not qualified" to be involved with these procedures? I know what some of the "reasons" that will be stated.

I have passed background checks, got my RN license, am a decent and respected individual, but I am presumed to be a danger? to female patients?? I say "I and me" meaning males in general.

With the amount of males in nursing now, does anyone EVER assume that the guy would like to have a male nurse doing a cath? No. We "presume" and follow stereotypes. "Oh guys don't care..." etc. YET, we exclude males from certain care tasks when the female patient hasn't voiced an aversion at all. Again, "ask if the female would mind???" Really?? Does anyone ask the male "if he would mind a female being in there?" I'm sure some will say something like " well females have been nursing for a long time and the males just know that they have to deal with it..." Well, males are nurses now, where is the consistency?? Male trauma patients come in and no one hesitates in removing all clothing, just let it alll hang out and many times don't even get them covered up in a reasonable amount of time. Inversely, the female trauma comes in, and soon it's " oh it's a female, us girls will go in and do such and such" or they won't remove the clothing as quickly or as openly as they will on a guys, and sometimes I have seen them not remove pants because they "didn't want to ruin her clothes!" What?!?!

And by the way, no one rushes in and saves granny from a male giving her an enema. DOUBLE STANDARS ABOUND. Makes me sick and depressed. How will I advance in professional practice with all the "assumed" problems with males and female patients?

I will say, I don't care. The girls can do ALL the patients, male and female, caths enemas, pelvis, for all I care. But when the selectivity comes out it is just plain WRONG, and it IS discrimination.

One more point; it is wise to avoid being alone with a female patient for the "private" tasks...reason being, all that it would take it 1 female making an accusation and my entire career could be over. Inversely, is a male patient made a complaint against a female nurse it wouldn't even be taken seriously.

[Larry77, RN]

There are many hospitals that will allow only a female to cath or perform peri-care on a female patient. Also, male nurses and male nursing assistants bathe the male patients. That is still common in my area. I seriously doubt your professional growth will be affected if you never cath or exam a female's privates.

Wow, I've never heard of this as a policy. What part of the country is this in? I've been wearing scrubs for 20 years and have worked in many hospitals in the NW as agency and I have never been told I couldn't do peri-care or cath a female.

I have always looked for a female RN to do my cath's when possible but there are times when that is not available and if the patient is sick enough, young enough (baby), or old enough to not understand what is going on I have never hesitated and I think my female peers have always appreciated that. Also I have always jumped in to take care of the unruly drunk or psych patient for them...as well as cath their young men that would sometimes ask for a female (in a creepy way).

We are all a team and I have never been offended when a female seemed uncomfortable with me seeing them naked, it most likely has nothing to do with me personally and I'm here to make them feel better not force them to see that I'm a descent person. I and my coworkers know I'm not a creep and that's enough for me.

This feels a little like all the threads about guys being offended by the whole "male nurse" label...personally I have more important things to fret about :-)

[Sassy5d]

Pudnluv said it well.

Male nurses are, in the big picture, relatively new.

I don't work with many, they are few and far between. Tasks need to be done. I'll go in the room, by myself, throw a foley in while you check in my squad, throw in a line, d/c a patient.

Dang I'm always so busy. I feel, it's a waste of my time to stop what I'm doing and go supervise a foley insertion.

As far as I know, unless it's a trauma, a male doctor, pa, NP, Medic, Tech, can't go in a females room by themselves and accomplish these tasks we are speaking of. I hardly imagine a trauma coming in and there's only 1 person.

Me, I'm task oriented. The female needs a pelvic, a foley, a lady partsl abscess drained. I'm not thinking about my male coworker. I'm thinking this needs done, my stuff needs done, go throw me a bone while I go do what needs done. To me, it's a waste of resource to tie up 2 nurses based on gender. Of course, sometimes 2 nurses go in to help each other, that would be the time to say 'hey, can you give me a hand with this foley insertion'?

Back to the topic, I too, have a hard time believing your professional advancement, as your calling it (maybe just wrong wording for a topic title) is hindered because you don't get to wipe fumunda cheese and assist with pelvic exams.

I see what you're saying, I read what you write. Are you seeing what anyone else is saying? No, I don't go into a male's room, who could probably be uncomfortable with me seeing his bits and ask him if he'd like me to find a male provider for his treatment. My patient has something that needs to be done, I need to do it. I'm his nurse.

There are not policies in place that state I need supervision doing tasks. Male nurses do. That's not going to change.

[OCNRN63, RN]

All points taken ?, thank you. The hindrance I speak of is this; we have had shifts where there is all male RN's, male PA, and a male Doctor. One of these days there will be a situation where a female has to be examed or whatever....I'd rather know what to do and have a few experiences BEFORE an emergent or urgent situation arises. Again, I am a professional RN, don't put chains on me unless someone voices a concern. This is a very lopsided issue. And forgive me but, I am a minority, literally, in the nursing field, and I believe that old habits die hard. So this is where I believe, please forgive me if I seem rude, a very large percentage of female nurses are oblivious to the male RN's struggle To be considered "A Nurse" without the unnecessary sexual identification tag.

It's not about you, or your abilities. Our priority, as nurses of any gender, is to provide the best care for our patients, not making another nurse's feelings the number one concern.

As another PP noted, there is a significant history of female patients being abused by physicians/male health care providers. I read an article not that long ago bout a hospital that got into trouble for allowing male medical students to perform pelvic exams on female patients while they were under sedation.

[exit96]

It's not about you, or your abilities. Our priority, as nurses of any gender, is to provide the best care for our patients, not making another nurse's feelings the number one concern.

As another PP noted, there is a significant history of female patients being abused by physicians/male health care providers. I read an article not that long ago bout a hospital that got into trouble for allowing male medical students to perform pelvic exams on female patients while they were under sedation.

So female nurses are incapable of indecent conduct?? Is that where we are continuing to go with this topic? Have you ever witnessed female conduct that was inappropriate or even a little inappropriate? I have, just recently...maybe not deamed "inappropriate" but it would have been if the situation was the inverse....I understand and am sorry for the historical instances of female abuse, truly I am. But why do we absolutely refuse to see if from the other side (male Nurse?). Do males deserve to be subservient to this attitude as a payback?

[SoldierNurse22, BSN, RN]

So female nurses are incapable of indecent conduct?? Is that where we are continuing to go with this topic? Have you ever witnessed female conduct that was inappropriate or even a little inappropriate? I have, just recently...maybe not deamed "inappropriate" but it would have been if the situation was the inverse....I understand and am sorry for the historical instances of female abuse, truly I am. But why do we absolutely refuse to see if from the other side (male Nurse?). Do males deserve to be subservient to this attitude as a payback?

That's not at all what OCNRN said. She was pointing out that the scenario where a female is abused by a male is more prevalent, hence why you as a male nurse will probably be asked to find a female to render sensitive care to female patients more often than female nurses will be asked to leave the rooms of male patients.

[exit96]

That's not at all what OCNRN said. She was pointing out that the scenario where a female is abused by a male is more prevalent, hence why you as a male nurse will probably be asked to find a female to render sensitive care to female patients more often than female nurses will be asked to leave the rooms of male patients.

I agree. I am just trying to focus on the minority perspective in this situation, the male RN. No biggie, I'll just try to incorporate some ideas set forth in my own practice. Thanks to all, PEACE.

[Sassy5d]

So female nurses are incapable of indecent conduct?? Is that where we are continuing to go with this topic? Have you ever witnessed female conduct that was inappropriate or even a little inappropriate? I have just recently...maybe not deamed "inappropriate" but it would have been if the situation was the inverse....I understand and am sorry for the historical instances of female abuse, truly I am. But why do we absolutely refuse to see if from the other side (male Nurse?). Do males deserve to be subservient to this attitude as a payback?[/quote']

Subservient to what?

What, if anything, are we trying to accomplish here?

Do we need more policies in place that state a male pt can not be undressed by a female nurse without an additional provider present? A male patient can not be cathed by a female nurse without additional staff?

Maybe we should rally the public and attempt to get more male nurses because there are NOT enough.

[exit96]

No, no more policies. I am just looking for consistent behavior. I'm out, these threads become cloudy by subjective occurrences and it diverts from the principal set forth, too difficult. Perhaps this should be a male only topic. I do see the need to advocate for the male RN.

Thanks, I am done with this conversation.

[OCNRN63, RN]

So female nurses are incapable of indecent conduct?? Is that where we are continuing to go with this topic? Have you ever witnessed female conduct that was inappropriate or even a little inappropriate? I have, just recently...maybe not deamed "inappropriate" but it would have been if the situation was the inverse....I understand and am sorry for the historical instances of female abuse, truly I am. But why do we absolutely refuse to see if from the other side (male Nurse?). Do males deserve to be subservient to this attitude as a payback?

I didn't say you were supposed to be subservient. I said that your needs/feelings are not as important as the needs/feelings of patients.

Of course women are capable of being abusive, but men, overall, have a greater history of abusing others. You have no idea what a patient's personal history is, so if that patient wants only females to provide invasive procedures, you bet I'll do whatever I can to make sure that happens. It's about the patient, not you.

[exit96]

I didn't say you were supposed to be subservient. I said that your needs/feelings are not as important as the needs/feelings of patients.

Of course women are capable of being abusive, but men, overall, have a greater history of abusing others. You have no idea what a patient's personal history is, so if that patient wants only females to provide invasive procedures, you bet I'll do whatever I can to make sure that happens. It's about the patient, not you.

I thought I was done with this conversation but I would like to add:

If you look over this thread you will see that I have never disagreed with what you have just stated, ever, you are on point. But there is more to it and I have only seen a few posters "bite" and see what I am driving at. Maybe I'm not clear, my apologies.

[Susie2310]

No, no more policies. I am just looking for consistent behavior. I'm out, these threads become cloudy by subjective occurrences and it diverts from the principal set forth, too difficult. Perhaps this should be a male only topic. I do see the need to advocate for the male RN.

Thanks, I am done with this conversation.

You raised a question as to why "women are catered to" and stated your objections to your female co-workers rushing in to take care of your female patients in situations where the care required is of a more personal/intimate nature. You have objected to the point of view of many women on this thread who have tried to share their perspectives with you, and after several pages of conversation you still insist that your female co-workers should not presume that female patients would prefer to be cared for by a female when more personal/intimate care is required, and should not jump in and take care of your female patients without asking you first. You continue to insist that you have a right as a male nurse to provide intimate care to women patients as long as you ask the women patients first and they don't refuse, and that your co-workers should butt out of helping with your female patients intimate care unless your co-workers ask you first.

All of your posts are about you. You give lip service to respecting female patients needs. At the end of all these pages you are still concerned about yourself, the male RN, and your "right" to provide intimate care to your female patients. How about listening to what some of the women on this thread have told you, and trying to put yourself in the place of your women patients. Yes, it would be nice if your co-workers could communicate with you first, but surely you can put the needs of your female patients first in your mind and feel pleased that your female co-workers are assisting with care that your female patients may feel uncomfortable/afraid to receive from a male nurse, and surely you can feel pleased that your female patients who have a history of abuse and prefer to receive care from female nurses will easily receive that care without having to go to the extra step of requesting that accommodation from you. Also, if your female patients are afraid/unwilling to ask you for a female nurse, and would really prefer to receive care from a female, they will not have to endure what for some women will be the trauma of receiving care from a male. Can you not see anything good for your female patients by being helped by your female co-workers?

You ask for consistent behavior in your post above, and after pages of posts where women have told you flat out that women are sexually abused far more than men are, even in the healthcare setting, and who have given you their own testimonies of abuse they have experienced and how it affected them when they sought medical care, you are still whining that your rights as a male nurse are being infringed and this should be a male RN only topic. Do you advocate a policy that male nurses will provide intimate care to female patients unless the female patients specifically object in clear language? Would that satisfy you? Stop thinking about yourself and read the ANA Code of Ethics - you will find that patient care is centered on the patient's needs.

[Sassy5d]

I reread the OP.

Women 'cater' to other women. But when it comes to males, we run in, rip their clothes off, leave their junk flapping in the breeze, man handle their mandingo's and never once ask a male patient if they mind.

I'll give that there's def a double standard in patient care. If a guy was packing a Vienna sausage and a coworker makes a crack, it would probably be funny. If a male coworker made a crack about a females genitals, it would all be over.

Totally get it.

I still can't wrap my head around how this hinders professional growth. But I'll stop beating the dead horse and all those other stereotypes