Hernia Repair Patient Dignity

[Catfostermom]

Since my husband just had hernia surgery, I have been looking into patient dignity.   He went to a male Dr for the surgery.  When he went into the ACC it was all females.   Since we are in Covid restrictions still, I couldn’t go in with him.  He was very uncomfortable with all the females and thought the attitude of I’ve seen thousands of memberes was totally Unprofessional. He felt that while they did their “jobs” they didn’t care how uncomfortable they made him.  Believe it or not males do not want to expose themselves to you.  Just because some of you don’t care who sees what, others do.  You are so correct about the double standards that females wouldn’t put up with that but males have to.  Ladies,  think about how off putting you are to your male pts when you make those comments.  Males also tend to hide their emotions. But, you bet your butt if I was allowed in and saw how uncomfortable he was I would have said something.  He was already nervous and alone and just wanted to get it over. 

[Catfostermom]

1 hour ago, Susie2310 said:

If I understood correctly, the nurses didn't explain to the patient the reason why they needed to check the patient's genital area, and they didn't ask the patient for their permission to do this.  By not asking permission before doing this, and by not explaining the reason for needing to do this check, a patient experiencing this activity being done to them in an impersonal manner without their permission (particularly as more than one nurse came in at different times to do this check) could have perceived the nurses who performed this activity as spectators - that is, people (albeit nurses) who are watching something happen (the event being the post-op condition of the patient's genital area).

In my view, communication is key here; introducing oneself if you haven't provided care to the patient before, explaining what you need to do and why, and asking the patient if you can go ahead with the check before doing it.

Esp if the incisions are way above the waistline. 

[Catfostermom]

2 minutes ago, Catfostermom said:

Esp if the incisions are way above the waistline. 

If the other 3 nurses asked he would have had the opportunity to say no.  He was told one nurse would be following his care, not 4. 

[Catfostermom]

1 minute ago, Catfostermom said:

If the other 3 nurses asked he would have had the opportunity to say no.  He was told one nurse would be following his care, not 4. 

Nurses or anyone for that matter can not assume that even though it’s a routine check that they can just go ahead and do it. 

[JadedCPN, BSN, RN]

14 minutes ago, Catfostermom said:

Esp if the incisions are way above the waistline. 

Nobody has argued that better communication could have been used; it absolutely should have been explained each time he was checked.
But your repetition of this statement, in conjunction with your use of quotes previous in regards to “checking” the sites and the spectator sport comment, again gives the impression that you believe/are implying that nurses were checking your husband’s genitals just for the fun of it when they didn’t need to, which shows your lack of understanding of the medical side of it. 
Yes, nurses would need to check below the incisions to look for any complications, swelling, bruising, bleeding, etc. This should have been explained, and perhaps it was. But you continuing to imply that nurses were being inappropriate with these specifics actions, rather than their lack of appropriate communication, is where I take issue. 

[Catfostermom]

1 hour ago, Susie2310 said:

If I understood correctly, the nurses didn't explain to the patient the reason why they needed to check the patient's genital area, and they didn't ask the patient for their permission to do this.  By not asking permission before doing this, and by not explaining the reason for needing to do this check, a patient experiencing this activity being done to them in an impersonal manner without their permission (particularly as more than one nurse came in at different times to do this check) could have perceived the nurses who performed this activity as spectators - that is, people (albeit nurses) who are watching something happen (the event being the post-op condition of the patient's genital area).

In my view, communication is key here; introducing oneself if you haven't provided care to the patient before, explaining what you need to do and why, and asking the patient if you can go ahead with the check before doing it.

 Now let’s say his first nurse explained to him what she was doing.  Then the next nurse comes in and says she needs to check his incisions.  To him the incisions are above the waist.  The pt shouldn’t be the one to have to ask questions, after the surgery. He said his information was verified at minimum 10 times preop,   If you can go over that so many times, the nurses should be able to explain each time what was going on.  

[Catfostermom]

4 minutes ago, JadedCPN said:

Nobody has argued that better communication could have been used; it absolutely should have been explained each time he was checked.
But your repetition of this statement, in conjunction with your use of quotes previous in regards to “checking” the sites and the spectator sport comment, again gives the impression that you believe/are implying that nurses were checking your husband’s genitals just for the fun of it when they didn’t need to, which shows your lack of understanding of the medical side of it. 
Yes, nurses would need to check below the incisions to look for any complications, swelling, bruising, bleeding, etc. This should have been explained, and perhaps it was. But you continuing to imply that nurses were being inappropriate with these specifics actions, rather than their lack of appropriate communication, is where I take issue. 

When did I say I was a nurse? Or that I did understand. I wasn’t there.  I go by what my husband told me. He was uncomfortable, made it pretty clear with his trying to cover himself up.  How do you know they weren’t being? You know what you do, not every nurse in the world.  It’s been stayed before above somewhere that she saw nurses going into a well endowed males room before and checked him out, when they didn’t need to.  It happens. If that was my husbands take on it, then that’s what I’m going off of. 

[Catfostermom]

1 hour ago, JKL33 said:

Just so you understand, she was likely referring to the period of time in which he was in the operating room. That is what is meant by "through the whole surgical procedure." I know that I was not there but I'm confident that she didn't mean that someone will greet him at the front door and be the only one to care for him until he gets back in the car. That's just not how it works. I am sorry that wasn't clear/that he didn't know what to expect.

I also don't think she was trying to pull one over on you, nor that things did not go as they were supposed to with the number of staff involved. Pre-op and post-op are different. There are a number of patients to get through those two times (get ready for surgery/recover from surgery and be ready for discharge) and the staff on duty that day are responsible for accomplishing it. It isn't like "Nurse Jane will be taking care of you today." 

Others who work in these areas may clarify if I have represented this incorrectly.

I do think you should let your contact know that the number of different nurses coming in and out to do the post-op checks was part of what made him uncomfortable. But please understand that this part of it wasn't necessarily a break from the norm, and whether or not your contact admits that is another story. They like to keep things rolling. They also like "efficiency" which amounts to a few people running around doing a lot of things. I am sorry for the way that comes across to patients. Rest assured that some of us don't appreciate it much more than you do.

With any luck they will try to re-tool so that patients can have more consistency and also it sounds like they should try to communicate better in real time. I know it sounds a little cheesy to us (RNs) sometimes, but it does make a difference to patients when we introduce ourselves properly, give our role/title, state what we are there to do, and gain permission to do it.

Thank you for this. 

[Catfostermom]

1 minute ago, Catfostermom said:

Thank you for this. 

I believe you are the one that said you give them the options. He wasn’t.  Knowing him he would have turned it down and would have asked for the first nurse.  According to him it started with the prep nurse and just escalated from there. 

[Catfostermom]

7 hours ago, macawake said:

As other posters have pointed out, you didn’t have to use the word ”sexual”. There is no other reason that I can see for using quotation marks around checking, when describing standard postoperative care. You were insinuating something. And I think you know that. When you used the wording ”spectator sport”, that confirmed it.

If your husband had had a thumb arthroplasty and his entire arm had been exposed all the way up to his shoulder, would you have been here claiming that four nurses had been ”checking” his elbow? 

 

My husband said checked, so “ quoting him”. 

[macawake, MSN]

33 minutes ago, Catfostermom said:

My husband said checked, so “ quoting him”. 

If that’s the case, then who were you quoting when you wrote the following?

 

On 5/2/2021 at 2:32 PM, Catfostermom said:

One last thing.  I’m not the “insecure wife”. 

?

No one had accused you of being that. You were the one to bring that up.

I simply don’t believe your explanation for using quotation marks in regard to your husband being ”checked”. 

[MunoRN, RN]

1 hour ago, Catfostermom said:

Esp if the incisions are way above the waistline. 

Again, this seems to hinge on this misunderstanding.  While it important to assess the incisions themselves after abdominal surgery it's not only or necessarily even most important assessment.  A pelvic assessment is also necessary after abdominal surgery such as hernia surgery.  You can't keep a patient continually covered below the waist and perform needed pelvic assessments.  

It sounds as though the "this isn't a spectator sport" came fairly late in this scenario, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if nurses were much more abrupt about their assessments after that since it's a comment that could be taken as sexually inappropriate.  

[GrumpyRN, NP]

7 hours ago, Catfostermom said:

Esp if the incisions are way above the waistline. 

Oh for.....!

We have already established that you are not a nurse and have no nursing knowledge so why do you continually argue about something you know nothing about? What is worse is that you don't know what you don't know about it and are continually going down the sex route. (This says more about you than the nurses).

"Checking" is shorthand for a full examination of wound, sutures, associated site and any dressings in situ. It also encompasses how the patient is looking, feeling and breathing including vital signs. So please stop putting checking in quotation marks and follow what you have been told by multiple posters here and COMPLAIN TO THE FACILITY and not us. 

If you have a legitimate complaint the posters on here will be the first to tell you what to do and how to do it because we are (mostly) professionals who want the best for our patients and their families. But coming on and attacking all of us is just wrong - I live in the UK and work in a different system but do get what you are saying hence the anecdote, but you are going about it wrong.