Health Provisions Slipped into Stimulus Package

flightnurse2b, LPN · Feb 16, 2009

If you will look at my whole thread, you would notice that I was responding to someone attacking me. All of my previous threads have been about the Health Care Package. As far as the audio being racist, it is only racist if you want it to be. My point was to prove where the supporters of Obama are coming from. The majority of them are not in this to help their fellow Americans. They are in this for self-gain. Whether that be in Health Care or handouts. You'll have to excuse me if I don't feel bad about people who don't want to work and want to take money from the Wealthy, not having any healthcare.
I think it is sad that some people in this country don't have any healthcare. Especially at the hands of an insurance company. I have no pitty for people who sit on their butts and expect everything for free. And frankly, as a professional, I'm worried about what government control of healthcare will do to the level that we provide and their control of our incomes. The government has yet to show a stellar record of anything they control.

again, another unfounded blanket statement that is only making you sound judgemental.

most supporters of obama have america's best interest in mind and decided to vote for someone who we thought would bring the country out of the hole that it's in.

you are sounding very silly saying that people voted for obama because they want hand outs.

if i wanted a handout, i'd call my parents.

there are some people who can't work due to disability. or some people who DO work hard at those jobs that no one wants, such as preparing the food you eat at a restaurant or cleaning the toilets you use at work, and those jobs don't offer good health care benefits. or how about the elderly who worked hard their whole lives, only to become chronically ill and spend their monies entirely on care of themselves or their spouse?

no one wants to take money from the wealthy.

the point is this.

executive fat cats making billions of dollars a year are the drain on the economy.

people on our land, the land of opportunity, are suffering, and that's unacceptable.

maybe if more people CARED about their fellow american like president obama does and isn't pointing fingers at those who need a little help from their neighbor, this country would be in better shape.

Quark09 · Feb 16, 2009

Would you prefer Socialists? How about whining little babies? How about Drain On Society? Better yet, why don't you take your mind off of your Wealth Envy and listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJdu-HCyGZE&feature=related That basically sums up the reason why our president is who he is and where this country is heading.

YouTube is your source?!?!? Oh, that's "rich" :yeah:Hit a nerve, did I? No need to be nasty or call names, Nick.

tulip928 · Feb 17, 2009

again, another unfounded blanket statement that is only making you sound judgemental.
most supporters of obama have america's best interest in mind and decided to vote for someone who we thought would bring the country out of the hole that it's in.
you are sounding very silly saying that people voted for obama because they want hand outs.
if i wanted a handout, i'd call my parents.
there are some people who can't work due to disability. or some people who DO work hard at those jobs that no one wants, such as preparing the food you eat at a restaurant or cleaning the toilets you use at work, and those jobs don't offer good health care benefits. or how about the elderly who worked hard their whole lives, only to become chronically ill and spend their monies entirely on care of themselves or their spouse?
no one wants to take money from the wealthy.
the point is this.
executive fat cats making billions of dollars a year are the drain on the economy.
people on our land, the land of opportunity, are suffering, and that's unacceptable.
maybe if more people CARED about their fellow american like president obama does and isn't pointing fingers at those who need a little help from their neighbor, this country would be in better shape.

Did you know healthcare reform was in this "stimulus" bill before you read about it on this thread?

I doubt most Americans know it's in there.

Don't you find that a bit strange since this president proclaimed it would be a new Washington with transparency and that the we would all know what goes into bills in Congress? He proclaimed that things would no longer be done in secret.

Quark09 · Feb 17, 2009

Did you know healthcare reform was in this "stimulus" bill before you read about it on this thread?
I doubt most Americans know it's in there.
Don't you find that a bit strange since this president proclaimed it would be a new Washington with transparency and that the we would all know what goes into bills in Congress? He proclaimed that things would no longer be done in secret.

I understand what you are saying, but on the other hand, the very fact that this information was posted on a public site shows that the information is readily available to those who will take the time to look for it, and thus not exactly "hidden". In this age of information, there really isn't much of an excuse for being uninformed.

However, I do agree with the point you made; it could have been announced along with the original stimulus plan.

Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP · Feb 17, 2009

From the friendly neighbourhood moderator:

Please refrain from using blanket labels - 'whining babies', 'drain on society', 'racist', etc. in reference to any group of people. Also note that racially tinged speech, no matter how thinly/thickly veiled, will not be tolerated, no matter to whom it is directed.

If you feel that you see a post that is offensive in any way, please report it by clicking on the 'report' button at the bottom left of each post, and let staff deal with it. Thank you, and carry on. :)

Koyaanisqatsi-RN · Feb 17, 2009

I have no pitty for people who sit on their butts and expect everything for free.

Very few people are actually like this.

Most people however, feel they are owed at least basic health care. Much in the same way they are owed police and fire protection.

You would agree that police and fire protection are basic rights, no? Why isn't health care among those things?

The problem with conservative ideology, is that you want to be selfish and rational, and I completely understand that. But you aren't being rational, and you aren't being effectively selfish. As it is right now, you already pay more than anyone else in the world in taxes for health care. Did you know that? Did you also know that the care that particular tax money provides is ridiculously sub par?

Does that mean that America just cannot provide what other countries already do? No. It just means that we have a broken system that tries to shoehorn things like medicaid to play nice with a for-profit private system. This is a disaster. We need a unifying public health plan! This will result in LESS COST TO YOU.

Don't believe me?

Tell me which is cheaper...

1. Antibiotics to help stave off an infection

2. Or full blown meningitis at an emergency room.

People who aren't insured and can't even afford the doctor visit to get the ABs won't go. And they end up in severe condition at our emergency rooms. Guess who foots the bill?

You guessed it!

So if you want to be selfish and save money, I applaud you. So do I. However, be SMART about it. Saying 'darn gubment taking MY MONEY, you WELFARE QUEENS' etc does not address real, actual reality.

As nurses, we recognize the right of everyone to health care. It's time to be smart about it and provide it. It is cheaper this way, more effective, and every single other industrialized nation on earth provides it except for us. Unless you think America is defective and can't do the same, what reason do you have to oppose us 'liberals?

By the way, I take liberal as a compliment. Yes, I am liberal, and I am progressive. No shame in that. :)

NickB · Feb 17, 2009

YouTube is your source?!?!? Oh, that's "rich" :yeah:Hit a nerve, did I? No need to be nasty or call names, Nick.

I'm sorry that the clip came from Youtube, I guess that phone call never happened, EarthMama. You guys can say whatever it is you need to say this week to defend this Pork Bill. I'll be interested to hear your gripes in a year or so. You support Mortgaging away the future of your children and grandchildren to help others. I have no problem helping those that are truly in need. I do have a problem helping those who only want, but would never give in return. You fight to help the people that would no sooner spit in your face with not one ounce of gratitude. I just don't understand it. Unfortunately, there is no way to help those who are disabled, or dropped by their insurance, or old, without people who make a career living on welfare mooching from it. The bed has been made, I'm tired of the argument, and I pray to God that is does work because if it doesn't, we are all in for a very rough road.

Quark09 · Feb 17, 2009

Well, I will just put out there that YES, I am a single mom (according to some of you that automatically categorizes me as a "Drain on Society"); YES I participate in the Single Parent Program at the college where I attend nursing school (however, those of us who utilize it aren't lined up outside the director's office with one hand held out for money while flipping the rest of you off with the other); YES my son has a medical card right now because my JOB (YES, I sure do have a job) doesn't offer health coverage, and YES it is humiliating to have to go to a public aid office, but I go so that I can keep my son covered until I finish school and have a job that offers coverage for both of us. I work nights and weekends, study my a** off when I'm not working, never miss class, and instead of sleeping I try to spend enough time with my son that he doesn't feel too neglected while I'm juggling all this. I'm pulling an "A," by the way. Am I a Socialist, demanding that hard-earned dollars be ripped out of the fists of people I don't even know so that I can "sit on my butt" and "expect everything for free?" Hardly. However, while the particular government-run programs that I "take advantage" of may not have perfect track records, they certainly are a godsend to me right now, because without it, my son wouldn't have regular checkups. Instead of his physician catching an ear infection before it gets out of control, we may have ended up in the ER at 3 am, needing antibiotics AND otic solution. This is hardly the postion I envisioned for myself a few years ago, but it's where I am now, and I, along with MANY others, am working to change my circumstances. Including everyone who utililizes (or "drains") this system under blanket labels such as "socialist" and "whining little babies" is neither accurate nor insightful; it reveals narrow, self-centered thinking and is a tired, over-used argument. Basic, government-regulated healthcare for all? YOU BET I'M FOR IT:up:. And as I mentioned several times earlier in this thread, offering above-and-beyond (health) measures to those who are actively participating in habits that are directly detrimental to their health? Which is going to be the greater "drain" on the healthcare system?

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Feb 17, 2009

It appears that we have many new members just learning how politics works ---especially inserting "pork" i.e "other economic interests " into federal funding bills------happens all the time. Philladelphia area reporting on major provisions of this bill, including health provisions, seen in both print and TV news.... healthcare is one of the major drivers of economny in our region....largest employer in my county.

RE including language evidenced based practices ---many of major insurance plans already have that language.

Providers receive electronic alerts that patients mammogram/prostate screening due, eligible for Hg AIC test or diabetes reminder:free glucometer coverage and patients receive "health alerts" in the mail.

See an example of Aetna's provider bulletin notice.

Healthy Outlook Program® - Clinical Practice GuidelinesAetna adopts evidence-based clinical practice guidelines from nationally-recognized sources. These guidelines have been adopted to promote consistent application of evidence-based treatment methodologies and made available to practitioners to facilitate improvement of health care and reduce unnecessary variations in care. Aetna reviews the CPGs every two years or more frequently if national guidelines change within the two-year period.The CPGs are provided for informational purposes only and are not intended to direct individual treatment decisions. All patient care and related decisions are the sole responsibility of providers. These guidelines do not dictate or control a provider's clinical judgment regarding the appropriate treatment of a patient in any given case.

Agree with viking that VA EMR records awsome: so helpful when I get a referal for homecare know past medical HX, treatment team members, medicaton summary, hospital summary ---sure helps facilitating healthcare.

Working with our homecare agency's EMR implimented in 2002, see the savings and benefits along with improvment in care coordination possible. Sure beats geting an insurance companies auth referral form with DX listed as chest pain, requested services SN, PT and HHA as only info--and 2 days latter get the hospital referral faxed with DX Pulmonary Emboli, DVT and need PT/INR --yesterday. :uhoh3:

I'm looking at trying to streamline our paper referral records for 80-125 homecare referrals received daily--with average of 5 pages for each client via use of scanning techoology that attaches to our EMR instead of having hundreds of papers being faxed to my office then disseminated to 5 branches. :idea: Department could receive into computer, store and send electronically, with instant access from time faxed into system, instead of being piled up on corner awaiting human hand to review, complete then get faxed to branch location. Already met with our health system CIO and Xerox to see what's available

I'm involved in our health systems Community Action team contacting legislators on issues affecting both patients/constituents in their area along with our system as a provider ----maybe some of the EMR $$$ can come our way. ----------- this is exactly how all industries think and interact with government.

Having provided healthcare mostly to the working poor and middle class for 30 years, I see people barely making it from week to week, making decisions to eat over getting medicine vs paying for heat....especially after chronic or sudden illness wipped out life savings; prior independent contractor with no income and spouse disabled....using paper towels for wound care cause unaware health insurance will cover but doctor never informed them.

HM2VikingRN, RN · Feb 18, 2009

I'm sorry that the clip came from Youtube, I guess that phone call never happened, EarthMama. You guys can say whatever it is you need to say this week to defend this Pork Bill. I'll be interested to hear your gripes in a year or so. You support Mortgaging away the future of your children and grandchildren to help others. I have no problem helping those that are truly in need. I do have a problem helping those who only want, but would never give in return. You fight to help the people that would no sooner spit in your face with not one ounce of gratitude. I just don't understand it. Unfortunately, there is no way to help those who are disabled, or dropped by their insurance, or old, without people who make a career living on welfare mooching from it. The bed has been made, I'm tired of the argument, and I pray to God that is does work because if it doesn't, we are all in for a very rough road.

Really I think that the provision is designed to move us fwd to evidence based as a standard of care. Here's a small example. Magic mouthwash costs 75 cents a dose. 3-4 times per day easily translates into $3/day. Salt water rinses are free and accomplish the same results. Shouldn't poviders have the information needed to provide effective low cost care?

Howard Dean has a telling post today.

If an inexpensive pill that has been around a long time works substantially better than a brand new, highly-advertised and thus far more expensive pill - doctors should have that information at hand when we prescribe medications to our patients. When I do something for a patient, I want the scientific research that tells me its the best course for my patient. But the far right, led by people like Rush Limbaugh, hopes to somehow convince Americans that more and better research is a bad thing.
Medicine is and should always be science based - not driven by ideology. Mr. Limbaugh and his cohorts would have you believe that this research will be used to deny needed care to your great Aunt May and be run by the politburo. But the Bill passed by Congress states right up front that the Government can not make coverage decisions based on this research.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howard-dean/the-far-rights-all-out-of_b_167628.html

Its the small savings spread over millions of patients that really add up.

Chico David, BSN, RN · Feb 18, 2009

Did you know healthcare reform was in this "stimulus" bill before you read about it on this thread?
I doubt most Americans know it's in there.
Don't you find that a bit strange since this president proclaimed it would be a new Washington with transparency and that the we would all know what goes into bills in Congress? He proclaimed that things would no longer be done in secret.

The reason most Americans don't know it's there is very simple - It's NOT there. The article on which the original post is based is a fabrication. See my recent post on the subject nearby for the full story. What is in the bill is money to study - just study - which meds and treatments are most effective and/or cost effective. A lot of drug and device makers don't want that studied, since their products might not look good. So they started this totally false disinformation campaign and the right wing media was quick to pick it up and spread it. That's the whole story.

Katie82, RN · Feb 21, 2009

Really I think that the provision is designed to move us fwd to evidence based as a standard of care. Here's a small example. Magic mouthwash costs 75 cents a dose. 3-4 times per day easily translates into $3/day. Salt water rinses are free and accomplish the same results. Shouldn't poviders have the information needed to provide effective low cost care?

Right you are. I know from experience that when providers write scripts for medications, few of them realize how much meds cost. I work as a case manager for the Medicaid population. Not a week goes by that I have to contact a doctor about one of my asthmatic patients who are on Xopenex nebulizer treatments ($500+/month) instead of Albuterol ($50+/month). As an advocate for my patient, the first question to the doc is always,"Is there any reason this patient cannot use Albuterol?". Have not run into one case where Albuterol was contraindicated, doc simply did not know how expensive Xopenex is. Is this rationing care? No, I consider it promoting fiscal responsibility.....