Have you encountered this? Religious conflict.

[Iconoclast]

How do you handle it when a patient asks you to pray with them? I do not have the same belief system as my patients (I live in the Bible Belt) and when asked to participate I have always tried to skirt the issue by standing silently/respectfully/supportivley while they did the praying. Recently, I was asked to do the actual convocation/prayer. I was speechless. The patent assumed I was Christian. Everyone around here is, it is a pretty safe guess, lol. I am an atheist, but I largely keep that to myself. I told him I wasn't comfortable but that I would stay with him while he prayed. He got very angry and started accussing me of being a Muslim (!?!?!) and a terrorist (?!?!?!).

At that point, I just had to leave the room, b/c how do you respond to that?

He was VERY upset, VERY hostile to me after that, and complained about me all the next day. They had him transferred to med-surg even though he wasn't really ready b/c if he stayed in the unit I'd have been his nurse again (we only HAVE one nurse in the 4 bed CCU) and the charge nurse decided that was a recipie for disastor.

I have felt uneasy about it since then. He didn't get the nursing care he should have because I handled it poorly. However, I don't know what else I could have done. I don't think being dishonest is the answer. Prayer does not offend me, though I'm acutely aware that my atheism would offend many. :shrug: I am very happy to be respectfully present. I am not going to fake pray though, I thnk that is very innapporpriate for a number of reasons.

Any suggestions on how I could do better next time?

[NeosynephRN]

Wow...I was called a terrorist this weekend too! I thought that was original, guess not. I like you will usually stand in silence. I would have maybe gotten a chaplin to visit the patient and pray with him. I am also not comfortable taking on that role, saying a verbal prayer with my patients. I would try to find someone else. Otherwise I think you did great and that guy needs to get a grip. I would just do my job, and let him be mad. Tell him that speaking to you in that manner will not be tolerated, and that you are there to help him physically heal, but you can find someone else or you can call his minister if he needs spiritual healing.

[Quickbeam, BSN, RN]

As a new nurse on a tertiary pediatric floor 20+years ago, I was unprepared for how often I'd be grabbed and asked to pray for a child by a desperate parent. I literally had a father grab me and toss me on a bench to pray with him. I come from a very internal religious tradition which is extremely non-demonstrative. These overt displays always threw me.

What worked for me was to silently join the requester and have them pray. I'd hold their hand if they wanted or sit with them. If they needed a lot more time, I'd take them to whatever passed for a chapel at my hospital on a break. I'd also make certain that whatever their faith was that they had the opportunity to be in touch with fellow believers in the area. My patients were often from out of town and out of state.

Over time I came to understand that these situations had nothing to do with me and everything to do with the patient/family situation. For me, it made the awkwardness easier. I appreciate that you are thinking this through.

[BlueRidgeHomeRN]

sorry you had such an un-nerving experience...

i don't have any answers, but hope you don't hold this pt's behavior against all people of faith.

i am catholic in the bible belt and sometimes get the "you're not really a christian" line from others. i chalk it up to ignorance.

i think your respectful silence is very appropriate...would a simple "i never pray outloud" work as an answer to a situation like you encountered..?????it is a true statement for you....

[ohmeowzer RN, RN]

i don't think you did anything wrong. i think you handled it well. i think it is very respectful of you to be supportive of the patient while they pray. i am a mormon , and i have alot of people trying to tell me i am not a christian . i have been asked how many mother's i have ,among other uncomfertable questions.

i think you did the right thing and it's the patient's problem ..

don't feel bad because your patient is close minded. reglion is a tricky issue and i think you did allright. the patient put you in a bad position and you told him the truth .. give yourself a hug for me.

[lucky1RN]

Isn't it interesting how you're beating yourself up about what you could have done differently when the patient is the one who behaved with bigotry toward Muslims (terrorists?) and anger toward you? What a jerk (the patient...not you!)

I am not Christian either and when asked to pray, I have done what you did in the past...stayed at the patient's side while they prayed. When asked to say a prayer, I tell the patient I will contact the chaplain to schedule a visit...they're much better at it than I am.

Good luck!

[Iconoclast]

Thanks. Those are good suggestions, but I am at a disadvantage in that we don't have a chaplain (only a volunteer chaplain on some weekdays) and on weekend nights. In fact, I am the only person there. No other staff of any kind. I don't know if any of the nurses next door in the ED would have come over to pray with him; I honestly didn't think of that at the time. They usually only grace my doorway if I have a code, lol.

I just feel uncomfortable with the whole thing. I don't go about proclaiming my atheism, because it would bother people and they would judge me very negatively for it, but neither an I going to lie about it. I just try to dodge the issue as much as possible, and I am pretty good at that after all these years. This is the first time I can recall every having patient care affected by an issue of this sort.

[missninaRN]

A lot of good advice has already been given here. I especially like the idea of saying, "I don't pray out loud".

As a person of faith and as the mother of wonderful, intelligent, caring, agnostic daughter, I just want to say that you were treated terribly, Iconclast, and I'm so sorry you had to deal with this person.

Intolerance is born of ignorance and fear.

[MS._Jen_RN, ASN, RN]

I am an atheist. I have prayed for people when asked, when there was no other person to do so. The way I see it is that I am asking for help, for them, from the god that they believe in. I would not refuse other resonable wishes of a patient just because I don't personally value them. For example, I wouldn't bring bacon to a Jewish person even though I don't see anything wrong with eating it myself. I respect wishs to keep scapluars (sp?) and crosses on as well as other religous icons even though they are of no value to me. Prayer helps to support people of faith. I suppot my patients.

That being said- If you are not comforatble with supporting a patient in that way, you should not be expected to. I don't think there is anyone who thinks the patient's reaction was right.

I am also not sure of what a patient I have assisted in that way would think if I were to tell them of my lack of faith. Would they then be offened? I don't know...

Peace~ Jen

[santhony44, MSN, RN, NP]

It sounds as if you handled it as well as you could have.

I am a Christian, and I think his response was inappropriate. Pressing someone who declines to pray out loud is rude, regardless of why the individual declined.

For that matter, I've known other Christians who are very uncomfortable praying out loud, and one or two who just won't, even when asked.

I'm sorry the patient did not give you the same courtesy and respect you showed him.

[Agnus]

By definition atheist means you do not believe there is a god. If there is no god then praying is neither effective nor harmful. We often do things for our patients such as a doctor writing for unnecessary yet harmless herbals while a pt is hospitalized because a pt wants them. We allow religious amulets to remain in place etc. (yes I am well aware not all herbals are harmless or ineffective)

It does not indicate that we agree these things have more than a placebo effect. Sometimes that location of the amulet may make care a bit more difficult but we do not remove it without permission.

Perhaps you feel that by praying you are giving false hope or perhaps you feel it is saying you believe. I do no see it that way. The person already has the hope (false or otherwise) that prayer helps. By saying words at their request you are not declaring your beliefs you are merely meeting the pt's need for them.

It does not matter what I believe in terms of spirituality. I am not the one being effected by prayer or lack of it. Having a pt feel he is cared for by a "heathen", "non believer" or however else they choose to define it can be counter productive on a psychological level. Some people believe the prayers of others is more effective than their own. If it works fine. It may be just a placebo effect but no harm.

I fail to see how this would be an ethical issue if you do not believe in a god.

[Iconoclast]

Angus, I don't disagree, which is why I have always been OK with providing a hand to hold along with respectful silence when my patients engage in prayer. However, being asked to actually do the praying threw me for a loop. I wouldn't know what to say. I'd no more know "how" to pray than I would know how to waterski.

Secondly, even if I could manage it (I cannot begin to fathom what one might say in prayer) it seems highly dissrespectful to people of faith to have some poser "fake it." It seems on par to me to wearing blackface. Innappropriate at best, probably downright offensive to many. I wouldn't wear a hijab either. I don't know, it just doesn't seem like the right thing to do. It is inherently dishonest. We atheists are not ammoral ya know.