Nursing was a second career for me. I have a previous 4 year degree and had a career in that area. Now I'm middle aged, 3 years out of nursing school with ADN, almost 3 years of experience in critical care peds.
I'm being strongly encouraged to get my BSN. They will not fire me if I don't but I won't be able to transfer within the hospital very easily and my prospects should I seek employment elsewhere are probably not great.
I am, with much reluctance, applying for some on-line programs. I am just resentful that I will be writing papers and spending precious time away from my kids, my personal time, and I am a very busy mom with the family activities. Frankly I'm burned out with school. Have a bad attitude about going back.
So if I am to do an online program that takes things slowly, say one class at a time, how many hours will this require per week? How much will it take away from family? I would like to hear from those who are in a similar situation.
Esme, if I could like your post a billion times I would. I am in complete agreement with you. I am a diploma-trained nurse (I know gross right? I should never have been allowed to even touch another human) and followed a similar career track as you including pediatric flight nursing. I have guest lectured, travelled around the country to teach, been published in educational newsletters and contributed to several text books. ALL of this before I did my on-line RN to BSN just a few years ago. Add to that the fact that I actually attended a fairly prestigious university for two years prior to even going to nursing school. While I completely agree that going forward a BSN should be required I do NOT agree that forcing extremely experienced nurses to get one will have any impact whatsoever. I would like to think that in my 49 years I have managed to participate in enough activities and educational opportunities to make myself the well-rounded individual AND nurse I keep hearing everybody talk about. I do not feel my BSN education afforded me much more than learning how to write in APA format. News flash. You can teach yourself how to read and comprehend research articles if you have half a brain. You don't need to go to university for that. What I think would be much more valuable for the seasoned nurse, rather than forcing them to get a BSN, would be a requirement that they get certified in their area of nursing expertise.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Esme, if I could like your post a billion times I would. I am in complete agreement with you. I am a diploma-trained nurse (I know gross right? I should never have been allowed to even touch another human) and followed a similar career track as you including pediatric flight nursing. I have guest lectured, travelled around the country to teach, been published in educational newsletters and contributed to several text books. ALL of this before I did my on-line RN to BSN just a few years ago. Add to that the fact that I actually attended a fairly prestigious university for two years prior to even going to nursing school. While I completely agree that going forward a BSN should be required I do NOT agree that forcing extremely experienced nurses to get one will have any impact whatsoever. I would like to think that in my 49 years I have managed to participate in enough activities and educational opportunities to make myself the well-rounded individual AND nurse I keep hearing everybody talk about. I do not feel my BSN education afforded me much more than learning how to write in APA format. News flash. You can teach yourself how to read and comprehend research articles if you have half a brain. You don't need to go to university for that. What I think would be much more valuable for the seasoned nurse, rather than forcing them to get a BSN, would be a requirement that they get certified in their area of nursing expertise.
THIS^^^THIS^^^THIS!
I agree 150% all of my specialty certifications (CCRN/adult pedi, BCEN, CPEN, CTRN, CFRN, CEN, CRNI) were FAR more helpful to my specialty, my expertise, my professionalism and are FAR more reflective of my expertise than the letters BSN
I almost had a BA before I decided to go to nursing school. I was a semester away from graduating, but believed if I had my BA I wouldn't qualify for student loans and the nursing program I went to was an expensive private college so I needed student loans. Prior to nursing school I had worked and went to school part-time and didn't take out any student loans till the last semester. But I came to the realization that a BA degree wouldn't help me get a good professional job and I didn't want to have a degree and still work as a low paid secretary.
I've been a nurse now over 20 years and until recently I had no savings except for a little bit in a 403b. I lived pay check to pay check and relied on my credit cards and occasl 403b loan to pay the bills and emergencies. I have an excellent credit score last check was 850 when I got my auto loan and have a pretty little house I love, but I was just tired of living on credit cards even though I could easily get 0% transfer balances and all my loans are at fair and low rates. I don't know if it is because I'm getting older but I just felt a desperate need to have an actual emergency fund, even though I have plenty of credit card availability in a worst case scenario. I don't max out my cards, but have just had a hard time paying them off in full because of little emergencies and setbacks. However I've finally got $20,000 in a Roth IRA that I've saved in just over two years time and I've got my student loans and credit card almost paid off.
I just can't stand the thought of going backwards into student loan debt when I've been trying so hard to save money and pay off debt. I've been living very frugally for several years no real vacations and the thought of taking out student loans makes me physically sick. To spend thousands, and even though WGU is cheap in comparison to the other colleges where I live, that is money that could be better used paying off debt, saving for now and the future, fixing up my house or even a long deserved vacation. Also I have concerns about would a degree from WGU even count where I live, since it is a pass or fail and we have probably a dozen or more universities here already! But I do like that it is online, no real clinical, papers without group projects. The college I went to had a BSN program that insisted on group projects. If not for that it would have been fine, aside from the insane tuition, no way could I pay that for a BSN, esp now when I'm 50!
Trying to do group projects when nurses work in different hospitals and different shifts just seems insane! We get more real life collaboration at the hospital than we need already!
I don't see myself getting a BSN. I think I will try to fly under the radar and make it to retirement on my ADN, God willing my health, back and job prevails! In the meantime I'm just saving as much as I can and should have my house paid off before I retire. Sometimes I wish life wasn't so hard, ie the physical nature of the job (how I wish they would go to a no lift environment) and let nurses be nurses and not glorified CNA's, the stress from endless alarms and always struggling financially. I wonder why life is so hard, and hope there is some reward in the end for all the toil and struggles of being a nurse!
I am turning 50 soon and I have been in school almost half of the last 25 years. I'd like to be done!! If I go to school until I die, my loans go away.
You're right in an ironic twist if you keep going to school half-time you can defer and delay your student loans till you die, unless you max out on the available student loan limits before then. haha
And with college tuition rising faster than anything else, the day of reckoning would come sooner than later and then you'd have to pay the piper with your social security. At least when you die the student loan debt is forgiven!
I agree with you mmc - I do not understand why nurses with previous bachelors degrees do not get any credit for them.
If I had to go back, I'd rather finish my original BA than get a BSN. lol. I think my original BA would be much more interesting and enjoyable than dull nursing theory, stats and management!
Because the ivory-tower nursing elite feel that the only degrees that matter are nursing degrees. You could have a degree in rocket science, and they'd say, "That's lovely, dear, but you don't have a BSN."
Also I don't get what's up with nursing having lots of alphabet soup titles after their name. I don't know any other professionals that have all those letters after their name. Like some silly game of show off or one upping someone. Personally I think that detracts taking someone seriously, but that is just my opinion.
The ANA called for all RN's to have their BSN in 1965. Every other member of the healthcare team as moved to a minimum of a BSN for entry into practice (many require a master's degree now), but nursing.
We are never going to be seen as a true profession if we require so little education.
The ANA is seriously out of touch with the lives and needs of fellow nurses. Also we are never going to be seen as professionals as long as we are expected to lift, turn and clean the patients, breaking our backs, when no other healthcare professional is expected to do this!
I don't think that having a ADN makes one less professional. YOu dont hear of it from other professions becasue they ahve not been told go back to scholl or you can't work anymmoe. TRUST ME...if CEO's physicians, lawyers and politicians had to further their education to maintain their job.....there would be a ruckus!
I don't think ADNs can't be professionals, but let's face it: compare to other healthcare professions, the amount of education nurses receive is small. Physical therapists require a PhD, and they do not have near the amount of responsibility as a nurse. Occupational therapists require a master's. Most social work jobs require a master's as well. Do you see where I'm headed?
I'm not sure why you are bringing up physicians and lawyers as they both require a doctorate (a terminal degree), and most politicians are so crooked, no amount of education is going to help them.
I don't believe for ONE minute that the nurses laid off was based on their degree.
It depends. I'm working at a hospital that is trying to keep its magnet status, and magnet status requires 80% of the nurses to have a BSN. Most of the hospitals in my area are now requiring or strongly preferring a BSN. Again, it is that push towards higher education, and it is not unique to nursing.
Back in my grandmother's day, many years ago, people could drop out of high school and get decent jobs to support a decent-sized family on one income. In my mother's day (not too long ago), people with just a high school diploma could do really well for themselves. In my day (today), the Bachelor's has become the new high school diploma as now most high-paying jobs require a four-year degree, and even now, a lot of my peers are struggling to make it. All the nursing jobs either want lots of experience or more education.
Outside the magnet-seeking systems, if two people applied for the same job, one an ADN with years of experience or a new grad BSN, the ADN is more likely to get the job because at the end of the day, experience is all that matters. New grads are expensive to train and keep, and a seasoned ADN will have more to bring to the table. However, if two people with equal amount or lack of experience applied for the same job, one an ADN and one a BSN, then chances are, the one with the higher degree usually gets the job. Is it fair? No. But that is the trend these days.
In reality it has EVERYTHING to do with how much they make....the senior nurses. Since the MAJORITY of the working nurse population at the bedside are ADN nurses with experience it goes to say that those are also the senior nurses. It is against the law to discriminate against the nurse for her age...it is NOT however against the law to lay off nurses with downsizing and education as a the "guideline" so they not only decrease that amount of nurses but the amount of pay that is paid to the nurses that are left.
And I'm not disagreeing with this. In fact, I know what you are saying is true and I agree. The bed side nurses with lots of experience make a killing where I work (I'm talking near six figures in the mid-west), and new grads can do the same work at much cheaper rates.
That being said, if the seasoned ADN nurse does get a BSN (which I know may not be feasible for everyone), how else will the facility push him/her out? They can't use the lack of education as a reason, and by refusing to get a higher degree, the seasoned nurse is giving the employer a reason to terminate him/her on legal grounds.
This is a dangerous precedent....for 29 years from now you too will be laid off for not getting your MSN.
I thought about that, but I doubt a MSN will ever be required to work at the bedside. Not enough people are willing to get a Master's (and spend three more years) to practice at the bedside. If the MSN became the new standard, there would be a true shortage of nurses.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I don't think ADNs can't be professionals, but let's face it: compare to other healthcare professions, the amount of education nurses receive is small. Physical therapists require a PhD, and they do not have near the amount of responsibility as a nurse. Occupational therapists require a master's. Most social work jobs require a master's as well. Do you see where I'm headed?
While the in class time might be less chronologically...historically nurses have proven we are fit and competent professionals. Playing the devils advocate....To me this indicates the inefficient education of other professionals while nursing has been historically able to focus and produce quality educated nurses with a focused education utilizing less resources. For me that makes them brilliant, cost effective, and efficient. Less can be more. Paying an exorbitant amount of money for an education doesn't assure quality.....may for profit schools that charge amounts up to $100,000.00 for a degree have proven that it's not how much you pay that counts
I'm not sure why you are bringing up physicians and lawyers as they both require a doctorate (a terminal degree), and most politicians are so crooked, no amount of education is going to help them.
It was a hypothetical question. However your observation that despite their higher education they have proved they are not bettered by it is an interesting one.
It depends. I'm working at a hospital that is trying to keep its magnet status, and magnet status requires 80% of the nurses to have a BSN. Most of the hospitals in my area are now requiring or strongly preferring a BSN. Again, it is that push towards higher education, and it is not unique to nursing.
Yes...Magnet. A brilliant idea by a group of nurses in a business adventure to develop a nursing "club" that promises exclusivitiy to be with the "popular girls" by charging a phenomenal entry fee. I'm sorry....It is one big revisit to the college sorority mentality. Patients do not even know what that means.
Back in my grandmother's day, many years ago, people could drop out of high school and get decent jobs to support a decent-sized family on one income. In my mother's day (not too long ago), people with just a high school diploma could do really well for themselves. In my day (today), the Bachelor's has become the new high school diploma as now most high-paying jobs require a four-year degree, and even now, a lot of my peers are struggling to make it. All the nursing jobs either want lots of experience or more education.
Times have changed for sure. American don't want the jobs that entail physical labor. Many of these blue collar jobs have been shipped/outsourced over seas for cheaper labor weakening the American economy but that is another thread.
Outside the magnet-seeking systems, if two people applied for the same job, one an ADN with years of experience or a new grad BSN, the ADN is more likely to get the job because at the end of the day, experience is all that matters.
If that is the case....why are ADN nurses unable to find work even with experience and why are they asking for ADN nurses to go back to school?
I thought about that, but I doubt a MSN will ever be required to work at the bedside. Not enough people are willing to get a Master's (and spend three more years) to practice at the bedside. If the MSN became the new standard, there would be a true shortage of nurses.
Really? I wouldn't be so sure about that....just my 2cents.
How much time you will need for one class will totally depend on the class. I had some classes in my RN-BSN program that required around 1-2 hours per week and others that required more like 5-6. It all depends on how much reading and writing is required. Some of the classes I took had online quizzes, but for the most part they were open book, so as long as I took the time to read the material, I did well. It's totally possible to take it slowly and work in study time without totally disrupting your life. Your previous bachelor's degree should cover a lot of the requirements for the BSN, leaving actual nursing classes to be completed. If you have any GE requirements, such as Sociology, I would look into taking a CLEP test instead of the actual class.
I'm sorry you are being forced onto a road that you don't want to go down. I also have a previous bachelor's degree with an ADN and decided to complete the BSN solely for the purpose of making myself more marketable in this economy. Honestly, I don't really think it has added to my practice much. I think the big difference is having a bachelor's degree, regardless of the field. It's time that second-career nurses were given credit for this.
Back in my grandmother's day, many years ago, people could drop out of high school and get decent jobs to support a decent-sized family on one income. In my mother's day (not too long ago), people with just a high school diploma could do really well for themselves. In my day (today), the Bachelor's has become the new high school diploma as now most high-paying jobs require a four-year degree, and even now, a lot of my peers are struggling to make it. All the nursing jobs either want lots of experience or more education.
The difference is high school is free, but college is not! There is such a drag on the economy because of the millions with student loan debt. This student loan debt is keeping people from getting married, having children, buying homes and cars. You take out all this debt and there is no guarantee that it will pay off or that you will be able to pay it back. Do you really want to be paying on student loans for 20-30 years because that is where we are now! Many people with BA are working in jobs that don't require the degree ie starbucks, janitors, taxi drivers, secretaries, etc and now find themselves burdened and penalized for going to school, worse off than if they had not bothered! Then they go back for a masters to try to get a real professional job like one girl that is now $200,000 for a masters in communications. I read about her in the news and now after graduating she has no job. Her linked in site just shows all the volunteer internships she's done. A stupid article talked about how women were going to college in record numbers and going back to school when they couldn't get a job, unlike men. Well it seems the men may be smarter than the women, recognizing the student loan debt isn't worth it! But this stupid article was promoting we should all jump on the back to school bandwagon, loans be damned! She was promoted as a role model! Are you kidding me! She was getting royally fleeced a masters in communications to work at a non profit. Someone should have told her that was a dangerous decision. Where is the news media now that she has graduated with no job in sight, of course, it is silent! Considering women make less than men and live longer, student loan debt is particularly dangerous to women!
My husband got a BA in communication back in the 80's, it's very hard to market that degree, so he got a graduate degree in management (not MBA). Still couldn't find a job that paid better than a drafting job he got when he was a HS graduate.
Point being, life changes, his drafting job is extinct, computers do that now. Later he went back for ASN. When he decided he needed to advance, His BA & MS did help him meet more of his requirements than my previous CC experience. They don't make you start all over most of the time.
FlyingScot, RN
2,016 Posts
Esme, if I could like your post a billion times I would. I am in complete agreement with you. I am a diploma-trained nurse (I know gross right? I should never have been allowed to even touch another human) and followed a similar career track as you including pediatric flight nursing. I have guest lectured, travelled around the country to teach, been published in educational newsletters and contributed to several text books. ALL of this before I did my on-line RN to BSN just a few years ago. Add to that the fact that I actually attended a fairly prestigious university for two years prior to even going to nursing school. While I completely agree that going forward a BSN should be required I do NOT agree that forcing extremely experienced nurses to get one will have any impact whatsoever. I would like to think that in my 49 years I have managed to participate in enough activities and educational opportunities to make myself the well-rounded individual AND nurse I keep hearing everybody talk about. I do not feel my BSN education afforded me much more than learning how to write in APA format. News flash. You can teach yourself how to read and comprehend research articles if you have half a brain. You don't need to go to university for that. What I think would be much more valuable for the seasoned nurse, rather than forcing them to get a BSN, would be a requirement that they get certified in their area of nursing expertise.