H1-B visas

[suzanne4]

There was an interesting segment on the Lou Dobbs show this afternoon on CNN about the H1-B visas. They were designed and meant to be used to provide specialists in areas; and unfortunately, only about 11% have been going for that.

There is also an immigration law firm that is under investigation for trying to recruit directly for employers and when one thinks that they are contacting an employer, it is this firm. And a very large number of these visas have been going to an Indian company that is off-shoring their employees to the US. Other issue is that the H1-B is only for three years with one renewal for another three years bringing it to a total of six years and then the person needs to leave the US. Apparently, that is not being done either, so there is going to be a significant investigation into those that have gotten the H1-B visa, or are in the stages to receive one.

Working in a nursing home is definitely not specialist material, so expect to be hearing from the US government at any time for those of you that managed to get thru on this. Also expect an investigation into the training programs that are starting beginning training and not bringing the people in as specialists as the visa was designed for.

[elkpark]

Many are simple disregarding statistics the US Dept. of Labor is saying and what the facilities are saying as well because of baseless and unfounded fear.

"Baseless and unfounded fear"? Maybe it's because we have been working in nursing in the US for decades and see with our own eyes what goes on, as opposed to artificial statistics and convenient stories. All the hospitals and hospital associations want people to believe there's a shortage because that suits their purposes -- they would love to be able to import large numbers of foreign nurses because it keeps nursing wages and working conditions down. The government offices go along with this because the hospital industry has very powerful lobbyists and makes very large campaign contributions. Everyone in this country knows that the "we couldn't find an American to fill the job" story, in any occupation, is always a self-serving fiction put forth by the employer! The hospitals post many nursing vacancies, but qualified nurses apply for those jobs and somehow don't get hired, and the vacancies remain posted. Look at all the threads just on this board about which parts of the country have such saturated nursing markets that new graduates are completely unable to find jobs! Whether or not there is a "shortage" depends entirely on how one defines "shortage" and which set of government statistics you use. I've said many times, and will continue to say, there is no "nursing shortage," there is simply a shortage of nurses willing to put up with lousy pay and poor working conditions. Nurses from third world countries, though, are delighted to get jobs with (by US standards) lousy pay and working conditions, and that's why the hospitals want to import them.

I have already contacted all my elected representatives and urged them to vote against HR 5924, and am encouraging everyone I know to do the same.

[lawrence01]

"Baseless and unfounded fear"? Maybe it's because we have been working in nursing in the US for decades and see with our own eyes what goes on, as opposed to artificial statistics and convenient stories. All the hospitals and hospital associations want people to believe there's a shortage because that suits their purposes -- they would love to be able to import large numbers of foreign nurses because it keeps nursing wages and working conditions down. The government offices go along with this because the hospital industry has very powerful lobbyists and makes very large campaign contributions. Everyone in this country knows that the "we couldn't find an American to fill the job" story, in any occupation, is always a self-serving fiction put forth by the employer! The hospitals post many nursing vacancies, but qualified nurses apply for those jobs and somehow don't get hired, and the vacancies remain posted. Look at all the threads just on this board about which parts of the country have such saturated nursing markets that new graduates are completely unable to find jobs! Whether or not there is a "shortage" depends entirely on how one defines "shortage" and which set of government statistics you use. I've said many times, and will continue to say, there is no "nursing shortage," there is simply a shortage of nurses willing to put up with lousy pay and poor working conditions. Nurses from third world countries, though, are delighted to get jobs with (by US standards) lousy pay and working conditions, and that's why the hospitals want to import them.

I have already contacted all my elected representatives and urged them to vote against HR 5924, and am encouraging everyone I know to do the same.

With all due respect if people can't believe Gov't statistics then maybe there should also be no elected officials as well since electing one would be base on voting and statistics on who won.

How about those on lousy pay and poor working conditions. They are probably not on the right visas in the first place. If they were on the correct ones then they would be guaranteed the prevailing wage and these correct visas for them are the ones not being approved while those on working visas such as the H1B w/c what is driving the low pay and poor working conditions many are concern with is their year after year but the general public doesn't know the difference between the two and are making decisions base on wrong premises.

[elkpark]

With all due respect if people can't believe Gov't statistics then maybe there should also be no elected officials as well since electing one would be base on voting and statistics on who won.

How about those on lousy pay and poor working conditions. They are probably not on the right visas in the first place. If they were on the correct ones then they would be guaranteed the prevailing wage and these correct visas for them are the ones not being approved while those on working visas such as the H1B w/c what is driving the low pay and poor working conditions many are concern with is their year after year but the general public doesn't know the difference between the two and are making decisions base on wrong premises.

There is a famous Mark Twain quote that says there are "three kinds of lies -- lies, !@#$%& lies, and statistics" ... Everyone knows that statistics can be manipulated to "prove" any point one wishes to prove. It's not a matter of the government statistics not being believable -- it's that there are conflicting sets of statistics; you can pick and choose among them and make several different arguments and there is no one, clear, "right" answer to many questions.

With all due respect (and I do mean that :)), I've seen postings repeatedly on many threads about conditions in the PI where Filipinos are saying to American posters, but you don't understand how bad the conditions here are; you're not here and you don't understand how things work here. I find that a very valid point -- do you suppose it's possible that people who are not in the US might not completely grasp all the nuances and subtleties of the inner workings of healthcare in the US as well as those of us who have decades of experience working within the US healthcare system? I read all the time on this board postings about how corrupt the PI government is -- why would it be hard for someone from the PI to imagine that a large, wealthy, powerful industry in the US might be able to exert undue influence over our government?? "Money talks" in every country on earth, and the US is certainly no exception.

I don't care for being lectured about the detailed workings of my own profession in my own country any more than, I imagine, people in other countries care for being lectured about the workings of their own country by outsiders. :) You are entitled to your own opinion, but so are the rest of us.

Best wishes!

[suzanne4, RN]

The issue is that the entire US is not having a shortage, there are most definitely shortages of RN in certain areas, but not all. And there are areas where you will not find any petitioning being done, such as the Bay Area as well as most of the NY hospitals.

Where the shortages are is with experienced RNs, not the new grad programs that so many want to get into. Many are actually having to move to other area of their state or even out of state now to get into those programs.

Stories coming from the unions are quite different than what is coming from the AHA, and it has always been that way. And that is never going to change.

The issue that is being discussed and why I started this thread was because of the immigration law firm now being investigated by the federal government for their practices and the fact that only 11% of the H1-B visas are actually going to specialists, what they were designed for.

A new grad with a BSN is most definitely not a specialist in any way, shape, or form; nor is someone that is starting a training program whether for the OR or critical care. Training programs are not under the H1-B program, but some have found ways to try and get around it and the government is now investigating all of them.

And the H1-B does have a limit of 6 years, it is issued for three years and can be renewed one time. If the person is started under the AOS process during this six year time period, then they are under that temporary category and not the H1-B as their status is being adjusted. The US is investigating why many have remained in the US under this category when they were not supposed to per the terms of their original visa. Just because some has done it, does not mean that it is actually legal to be done.

Next issue is that the US economy is taking a major hit right now and there are lay-offs in all sectors going on now, so there are nurses that have been away from the bedside for sometime, but are going back to work to help out in the family if their spouse has lost their job and are becoming the bread winners of the family. Those that were working only a day or two per week are now going over to full-time and those that were already working full-time are picking up extra days.

[Promin]

Extension of H-1B status beyond 6-year limit is allowed in certain circumstances by law.

http://www.murthy.com/news/n_h1bext.html

the American Competitiveness in the 21st Century Act of 2000 (AC21) and the 21st Century Department of Justice Appropriations Act of 2001 (DOJ Act) allow an H1B employer to file incremental one-year H1B extensions annually after the completion of six years on H1B status.

Speaking about medical professionals I would like to mention that among employees at my hospital all the doctors and about 30 percent of the nurses are immigrants and we still have a lot of positions open.

Some argued that migration of workers from one state to another will solve the problem. Please go to Massachusetts forum on this site and read about people who sit without job for a year and still are not willing to move somewhere else.

Many of those who agrue with hater about "damn" immigrants taking "jobs taking away from Americans" simply don't understand how the process works. Please take your time and read questions in forms I-140 and ETA-9089 that are submitted by the employer petitioning for the foreign worker. You will see that the approval of the petition is impossible if the employer simply wants to substitute American workers with cheaper foreign labor.

[suzanne4, RN]

Extension of H-1B status beyond 6-year limit is allowed in certain circumstances by law.

http://www.murthy.com/news/n_h1bext.html

Speaking about medical professionals I would like to mention that among employees at my hospital all the doctors and about 30 percent of the nurses are immigrants and we still have a lot of positions open.

Some argued that migration of workers from one state to another will solve the problem. Please go to Massachusetts forum on this site and read about people who sit without job for a year and still are not willing to move somewhere else.

Many of those who agrue with hater about "damn" immigrants taking "jobs taking away from Americans" simply don't understand how the process works. Please take your time and read questions in forms I-140 and ETA-9089 that are submitted by the employer petitioning for the foreign worker. You will see that the approval of the petition is impossible if the employer simply wants to substitute American workers with cheaper foreign labor.

And H1-B visa is not an immigrant visa and that is where you are making a mistake. It is a temporary worker visa and they essentially have not been issued for nurses in more than four years since the nurses have been fast-tracked for the green card.

And most physicians are not under the H1-B once they begin to work. They come over under the J-1 visa for their training and then leave and then are usually in the process of applying for the greenm card when they return here.

The issue about the six year limit and again what you are not understanding is that many of the H1-B visas have not been used as they were designed, not going to specialists and they are being reviewed now by the US State Dept.

The one year increment approval does not even apply to nurses as we have not had the H1-B again for more than four years for routine cases; all were required to convert to the green card if they wished to remain here when their last visa expired.

I am very aware of what the rules and exemptions are that are out there, but you are not speaking of medicine or nurses. Other interesting thing on this is that most mortgage companies will not do a mortgage for someone on the H1-B visa, they want to see approval of the I-140 before they will grant approval on that as well.

You are looking at things from only one side and not the entire picture at all. And most unions do not permit a nurse with the H1-B or temporary visa either for work.

Immigrant is not the same as having the H1-B, but is permanent residency. And the H1-B holder is never considered an immigrant here, that is what you are assuming and it is incorrect to say the very least.

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

"Baseless and unfounded fear"? Maybe it's because we have been working in nursing in the US for decades and see with our own eyes what goes on, as opposed to artificial statistics and convenient stories. All the hospitals and hospital associations want people to believe there's a shortage because that suits their purposes -- they would love to be able to import large numbers of foreign nurses because it keeps nursing wages and working conditions down. The government offices go along with this because the hospital industry has very powerful lobbyists and makes very large campaign contributions. Everyone in this country knows that the "we couldn't find an American to fill the job" story, in any occupation, is always a self-serving fiction put forth by the employer! The hospitals post many nursing vacancies, but qualified nurses apply for those jobs and somehow don't get hired, and the vacancies remain posted. Look at all the threads just on this board about which parts of the country have such saturated nursing markets that new graduates are completely unable to find jobs! Whether or not there is a "shortage" depends entirely on how one defines "shortage" and which set of government statistics you use. I've said many times, and will continue to say, there is no "nursing shortage," there is simply a shortage of nurses willing to put up with lousy pay and poor working conditions. Nurses from third world countries, though, are delighted to get jobs with (by US standards) lousy pay and working conditions, and that's why the hospitals want to import them.

I have already contacted all my elected representatives and urged them to vote against HR 5924, and am encouraging everyone I know to do the same.

I coudln't agree with you more and I have already contacted my elected officals, I will ask my family of all registered voters to do the same.

Why do non Americans care about a nursing shortage in the US anyway?

Isn't this an issue for American nurses to deal with?

Could you point me to all these open nursing positions so I can tell my students where to apply, they are now looking for jobs>

[suzanne4, RN]

I am going to go ahead and close this thread, since what was originally posted has been dealt with.

The final issue is that H1-B visas are being investigated by the US State Dept, and that there are no visas available for the immigrant status at this time as well.

Thanks for your understanding on this.