H1-B visas

plumbabe · Jun 29, 2008

suzanne,

Do you have the links or transcripts of that segmnt on CNN? I wonder what immigration law firm is under investigation? hmm, would it be possible if you can send it privately to me. I have a bad feeling about this.

suzanne4, RN · Jun 30, 2008

Just go to the website for CNN and then you can search for it there. It was on the Lou Dobbs show several times last week, they have done several segments on it over several days.

The law firm being investigated does mainly work with H1-B visas for IT people and things similar to that. Have not heard their name bantered around as far as nursing contracts. But the nursing H1-Bs are under investigation as well, as they are not going to specialists as was the requirement in the first place.

New grad or going for training in a new area is not a specialist in anyone's eyes at all.

Promin · Jun 30, 2008

So, what is your point? I watched Mr. Dobbs' show once and don't have any desire to watch it again. His style is a good example of how not to run she show. They were talking about this situation with H-1B visas and Indian companies last year and nothing has changed since then, so Mr Dobbs' new are not very fresh. Also it seems like he does not really understand why people stay beyond 6 years on H-1B visas and that it's totally legal and authorized by the U.S. Government.

Could you explain how in your opinion this situation will Indian IT companies abusing H-1B visas is related to nursing?

lindarn · Jun 30, 2008

So, what is your point? I watched Mr. Dobbs' show once and don't have any desire to watch it again. His style is a good example of how not to run she show. They were talking about this situation with H-1B visas and Indian companies last year and nothing has changed since then, so Mr Dobbs' new are not very fresh. Also it seems like he does not really understand why people stay beyond 6 years on H-1B visas and that it's totally legal and authorized by the U.S. Government.
Could you explain how in your opinion this situation will Indian IT companies abusing H-1B visas is related to nursing?

Because this practice is driving way down the pay if IT people here in the US. This us causing an over supply of U.S. IT people and their pay is caving. THIS is what the connection is to nursing. You know (or should) that hospitals and nursing homes would like nothing more than to open the floodgates of nursing jobs to foreigners, and fire all of us. Neilson, the rating company, is in the process of FIRING ALL OF ITS AMERICAN WORKFORCE AND HIRING FOREIGNERS IN THEIR PLACE!! AND MAKING THEM TRAIN THEIR REPLACEMENTS IN ORDER TO RECEIVE ANY SEVERANCE PAY! This was also on Lou dobbs. Check out his web site. I happen to like his show. He is the voice for the American people and is digging up alot of stuff that the government doesn't want Americans to know.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

lawrence01 · Jun 30, 2008

Just making some clarifications....

Most foreign nurses are petitioned thru being an immigrant visa a.k.a. a US Legal Permanent Residence or "green card" and being petitioned for it is almost night and day from being petitioned from H1B.

Being petitioned thru greencard makes sure that the one being petitioned is not getting any jobs from a US Citizen and is not approved from the start if it can't be proven otherwise. It will only be approved if there is true vacancy that can't be filled by a US Citizen - this is built-in in the process. It also guarantees that the wages be the same as they are from a US Citizen since they are coming in as US Legal Permanent Residents. To make it short, someone being petitioned as an immigrant will not take away jobs and not affect wages unlike if petitioned thru H1B and other work visas.

Being on a temporary work visa, however, such as the H1B is another story and obviously being abused by employers as reported.

And unlike other industries in the US and esp. after the recent testimonies, it cannot be denied anymore that there is a true shortage as far as nurses are concerned. This is why the new bill, HR. 5924 w/c is roughly 2/3 for internal US domestic education and retainment of current nurses and 1/3 to bring in foreign nurses via the immigrant process (not H1B) and on controlled numbers is esp. significant and timely. This will make sure no foreign nurse will be brought in on H1B and those brought in thru the immigrant process does not take away jobs and not bring wages down.

Unfortunately, the H1B is also being used now in some nursing homes and some hospitals as well ever since there is the prolonged retrogression even though there have been several memos from USCIS that it is not generally for nurses. They were able to get around it just like how those employers were able to get around on Lou Dobbs' report.

It is also affects other foreign nurses being petitioned the right way (thru the immigrant/greencard process) because the general American public is presuming that it may be the same process and therefore have the same results. It is not the same, however.

On the other hand, the prolonged visa retrogression (thru the correct immigration process) has forced some nursing homes and some hospitals thru some lawyers to find some clever way to get foreign nurses on H1Bs and in the light of the current report from what is being done on that TV rating company, everything else being petitioned on H1B will be investigated.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Jun 30, 2008

I had heard that story this week on the radio,

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121452655537009139.html

You will have to pay money to read the rest of the article. It basically gives more detail to what Suzanne says.

Alex

lawrence01 · Jun 30, 2008

I had heard that story this week on the radio,
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121452655537009139.html
You will have to pay money to read the rest of the article. It basically gives more detail to what Suzanne says.
Alex

Also, just making clarifications again that they are only able to file for greencard because they are adjusting their status from the the H1B working visa and them filing for greencard is precisely the reason why this was found out in the first place as filing for greencard as I've mentioned has a built-in added protection to make sure no job is taken away from an American and the wages and benefits be the same as a US Citizen.

Them filing for the GC has prompted the US DOL to make these audits mentioned from the article and they are only forced to file for the GC because the H1B is only good for 6 years. If there were no limit to being on an H1B, I'm pretty sure they would rather retain them on H1B for obvious reasons.

If they were to file for GC from the start and not go through the H1B first, they would have not even be allowed to start the job as they would be hard pressed to prove that they are not taking away jobs from a US Citizen.

lawrence01 · Jun 30, 2008

** Note: Comments made by myself on this thread are all just my personal opinions.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Jun 30, 2008

The story I heard and now read, points out the immigration lawyers are the only ones making out, not the highly skilled employees.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jtG5o3AQhDnnGSAE9TQ82i5uKbowD91GOQS80

The point I am trying to make, immigration is a mess right now. Unless one has a compelling reason to be here (such as a spouse of a US citizen) it is very hard to immigrate right now. There seemes to be no short cuts, even high powered Fortune 500 companies are having problems bringing in employees from other countries even with top lawyers.

As far as green cards goes, it seems like there is a very long process and the political climate is not getting any better. I can understand why people are looking for short cuts.

In my opinion as a RN of 32 years, there is no shortage of nurses, many hospitals have hiring freezes on nursing positions, of course some regions have openings, when this happens nurses from one state will move to another state to fill the vacancies.This has been happened many times in US history that people move to where the jobs are. Also there are many qualified students awaiting for a place in a RN nursing school, if there is a storage these qualified Americans will gladly become nurses.

If all those measure fail, I will support opening the doors for foreign nurses to move to the US, otherwise they will have to follow the long immigration process that is currently in turmoil in the US.

lawrence01 · Jun 30, 2008

The story I heard and now read, points out the immigration lawyers are the only ones making out, not the highly skilled employees.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jtG5o3AQhDnnGSAE9TQ82i5uKbowD91GOQS80
The point I am trying to make, immigration is a mess right now. Unless one has a compelling reason to be here (such as a spouse of a US citizen) it is very hard to immigrate right now. There seemes to be no short cuts, even high powered Fortune 500 companies are having problems bringing in employees from other countries even with top lawyers.
As far as green cards goes, it seems like there is a very long process and the political climate is not getting any better. I can understand why people are looking for short cuts.
In my opinion as a RN of 32 years, there is no shortage of nurses, many hospitals have hiring freezes on nursing positions, of course some regions have openings, when this happens nurses from one state will move to another state to fill the vacancies.This has been happened many times in US history that people move to where the jobs are. Also there are many qualified students awaiting for a place in a RN nursing school, if there is a storage these qualified Americans will gladly become nurses.
If all those measure fail, I will support opening the doors for foreign nurses to move to the US, otherwise they will have to follow the long immigration process that is currently in turmoil in the US.

I would have to respectfully disagree with you in regards to national shortage.

The US Dept of Labor says their is, private hospitals says their is, AHA says their is and you also already read the recent testimonies as well from ANA and a representative of 1 nursing union and they also say there is as well. They differ on how they think it should be resolved but all agreed that there is a shortage now and the immediate future.

So, I really respectfully can't understand why you still think there isn't? Their shouldn't even be a discussion anymore, at least to my mind, if their is a national shortage or not.

Also, it is quite easy to say to increase internal domestic education. etc... but if you'll notice from the testimonies, they don't provide an explanation on exactly how they will do it either. Yes, increasing domestic education and increasing the pay for American nursing professors is the right solution but how??

Notice that they did not say how it can be done or where the funding will come from but just say it should be done without knowing the mechanics on how exactly to do it and they expect that their will be an immediate effect as well.

And it's not like both can't be done. HR. 5924 provides short-term, medium-term and long-term solutions and oddly enough the funding for the long-term solution (increasing domestic education and possibly increasing pay for nursing professors or instructors) will be coming from the short-term solution. $90,000,000 will be generated for the total 60,000 visas spread out in 3 years and this will provide funds for the long-term solutions. Also 60,000 immigrant visas for 3 years looks big but it isn't. It's just a drop in the bucket as Suzanne mentioned. This is not the same as what is being done on the current H1B mess where the one being replaced is being asked to train the ones who will replace them. It's far from that. Those facilities with a true shortage will be able to petition a foreign nurse for a GC to fill-in a vacancy that has to be proven that a US Citizen can't fill first while those facilities w/o a shortage or can't prove a vacancy be filled by a US Citizen will not be able to petition one. That's why I keep emphasizing the difference between being petitioned from an H1B and being petitioned for GC from the start.

Ironically, the H1B is entitled to a 65,000 a year visa, year-on-year even though many complains that it's taking American jobs and depressing wages and some even argues that the jobs on under the H1B isn't exactly considered in shortage either.

FYI, nurses and PTs are the only ones certified by the US Dept. of Labor to really be in shortage (and w/c AHA, ANA and nursing unions agrees with as well) that is why they can be petitioned outright for a GC and not have to go through a working visa first. And yet the general American public sees nothing wrong with the H1B and the one where there is a real world shortage and being petitioned by the GC process to make sure they don't take away jobs from Americans and depress wages is being delayed. And meanwhile, while bills for controlled-green card visas for foreign nurses are being delayed nursing homes and some hospitals are bringing in foreign nurses on the dreaded H1B. I find that ironic.

Also, I don't think unions and nursing associations are willing to fund domestic education from the fees they get from members nor increasing tuition fees is the answer, otherwise it should have been done a long time ago. How about increasing Federal or State taxes for domestic nursing education? I don't even think that is possible.

I urge people to re-read HR. 5924 and read for themselves that it provides fair, realistic solutions and a way to fund the real long-term solutions that everyone wants as well as provide a provision to retain current nurses and while reading it, always keep in mind that it is different from how the H1B is done. Facilities w/o a shortage will not be able to petition a nurse and only those facilities w/ vacancies that a US Citizen can't fill will be the only ones that will be approved. USCIS and the US Dept. of Labor will make sure of that.

Just my humble opinion.

lawrence01 · Jun 30, 2008

The point I am trying to make, immigration is a mess right now. Unless one has a compelling reason to be here (such as a spouse of a US citizen) it is very hard to immigrate right now. There seems to be no short cuts, even high powered Fortune 500 companies are having problems bringing in employees from other countries even with top lawyers.

- There is no shortcut. Never has. It's quite the opposite as far as foreign nurses are concerned.

As far as green cards goes, it seems like there is a very long process and the political climate is not getting any better. I can understand why people are looking for short cuts.

- It is a long process because the US immigration system is antiquated and inefficient.

In my opinion as a RN of 32 years, there is no shortage of nurses, many hospitals have hiring freezes on nursing positions, of course some regions have openings, when this happens nurses from one state will move to another state to fill the vacancies.This has been happened many times in US history that people move to where the jobs are. Also there are many qualified students awaiting for a place in a RN nursing school, if there is a storage these qualified Americans will gladly become nurses.

- I'm sure there are many Americans willing but willing and actually getting it is another thing. If you re-read the testimonies, many are turned down because of lack of faculty and there is lack of faculty because the pay for them is lower than if they would work as a Staff. How could this me remedied? Unfortunately, no one is answering this. HR 5924 is trying to address it w/c makes me wonder why some are opposing it. All ANA and nursing unions keep saying is yes there is a shortage (they said that, not me) and it is because of the reason above but stop short of providing a solution as how to remedy it. If people don't accept the facts and just believe what they want to believe, it will just make things worse. At the end of the day, the shortage will still be there and people can can force themselves to believe that there isn't a national shortage but the reality is the reality.

If all those measure fail, I will support opening the doors for foreign nurses to move to the US, otherwise they will have to follow the long immigration process that is currently in turmoil in the US.

-It has failed and still failing. It it's successful then nursing schools should not be rejecting applicants and there should be a slew of nursing faculties with decent pay. Simply asking the Gov't to fix it w/o knowing themselves on how to do it and then rejecting what the Gov't proposes and couldn't come out with their own way to do it and where to get the funds is self-defeating. And how can there be a national nurse-to-patient ratio if there are not enough nurses that are available to begin with.

Foreign nurses has always gone through the immigration process. There is no other way and there hasn't been any open door policy. Visas for foreign nurses has always been limited to what is lacking. Once the demand is satisfied, it shuts off again and actually many will argue that it shuts off before demand can truly be satisfied to make sure there is no over supply and that US nurses will always get a job. Many are simple disregarding statistics the US Dept. of Labor is saying and what the facilities are saying as well because of baseless and unfounded fear.