Grandfather clause for DNP?

[forpath]

I was reading an article about the U of Utah starting a DNP program here and it stated that: "Current nurse practitioners, nurse anesthetists, clinical nurse specialists and nurse midwives, who all hold advanced nurse-practice degrees, would be grandfathered in."

Is this correct? What is the state of the union with regard to grandfathering current APNs into a DNP?

Thanks to all those who respond...

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

Karen - thanks for the info.

As to the DNP eventually becoming the standard of care. I looked into a DNP program here in central IL that begins in Fall 2009. It is indeed a clinical degree but builds directly on your APN experience. After looking over the program,

I just wasn't sure what I was getting for my many $$$$. Since I'm almost 50 and plan to work until I'm 70 (to pay off student loans - lol), I don't think its worth it for those in my age group to get a DNP.

[dilleweed]

Since I'm almost 50 and plan to work until I'm 70 (to pay off student loans - lol), I don't think its worth it for those in my age group to get a DNP.

I'm 30, but still feel that the MSN is the way I will go, since I'll have the choice when I apply to programs next year. The MSN appeals to me because it's a faster route (I have 2 little kids and want to be done with school ASAP) - do I wish I was getting more clinical experience? Yes, but ideally I will get a job with a practice that is experienced with NP's and willing to give me a good orientation period. Ideally. LOL :chuckle If I have to get the DNP down the road, I'll do it part-time, slowly.

[justme1972]

Money...you can bet your bottom dollar that the "price" will go up.

It's not the exact same program...think of it as an accelerated MSN/DNP program, because you apply to most of these programs directly from a BSN.

[Bradw3488]

The DNP was created to offset the alphabet soup that is nursing and level the playing field with other disciplines that have practice doctorates (ie. OT PharmD) as well as MD's but I don't even want to compare DNP's to MD's because IMHO there is a huge difference.

It is a great alternative to a PhD and the DNSc which never really gained any favor. There is a skill set that it acquired through DNP programs as well as 500 additional hours above an MSN/NP. DNP will be the standard for graduate education, in fact some schools like Univ. of Mich. have already converted to DNP only. I also agree with some of the statements that reimbursement rates will go up to be on par with MD rates. The DNP also gives NP's more political and leverage!

Just my $.02 and thanks SirI for keeping on topic!

[Corey Narry, MSN, RN, NP]

You must live/work in a state different from my own. In my state, all APNs must work in collaboration/consultation with a physician, so I'm not sure if owning one's own practice would fly here.

In addition to what was already said, the requirement for collaboration is contained in nurse practice acts in some states but is also mandated by the federal government via the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services or CMS. Even in states that allow no physician oversight for the practice of NP's, a contract with a collaborating physician is required to bill Medicare and Medicaid. However, the conditions of the collaboration does not say that the physician needs to be physically present nor does it require a daily collaboration arrangement.

http://www.acnpweb.org/i4a/pages/Index.cfm?pageID=3438

[Corey Narry, MSN, RN, NP]

It is a great alternative to a PhD and the DNSc which never really gained any favor. There is a skill set that it acquired through DNP programs as well as 500 additional hours above an MSN/NP. DNP will be the standard for graduate education, in fact some schools like Univ. of Mich. have already converted to DNP only. I also agree with some of the statements that reimbursement rates will go up to be on par with MD rates. The DNP also gives NP's more political and leverage!

I do agree with what you're saying, however, it's not that the PhD and DNSc have never really gained favor. Both the PhD in Nursing and the DNSc degrees have evolved to prepare nurse researchers in the study of the science of nursing and develop theories that address our practice as nurses. The DNP is the alternative doctorate for clinicians who prefer to stay in clinical practice by translating research evidence into clinical practice. The vision is to have the PhD and DNSc degrees coexist with the new DNP degree. There are schools that are transitioning their nurse practitioner MSN degrees to a DNP. University of Michigan Flint is one of them but the Ann Arbor campus has not formally announced a change to the DNP.

The fear is that the DNP will become "PhD light" and will divert many nurses from attending the longer and more arduous process of obtaining a PhD in Nursing. Interestingly, some universities have already announced that although DNP graduates are eligible for teaching positions including Clinical Professor designations, they are not eligible for tenure.

[RN4NICU, LPN, LVN]

Does anyone know what the plan is (there probably isn't one), for masters-prepared NPs who wish to change specialties. Currently, there is the post-masters certificate, but I'm guessing that will be done away with if/when the change to DNP occurs. However, for the schools I've looked at, MSN to DNP programs do not support a change of specialty. Instead, they want practice hours within the same specialty for admission. So what if an FNP wants to dual-certify as a PMHNP or an NNP? Anyone have any idea?

[carachel2]

DNP program grads may have "more" training, strictly speaking, but it certainly remains to be seen whether they will have better training and it's certainly not a given that they will be better clinicians.

I've only looked at a few (required to for a class) and yawn....not impressed. As expected, more research and theory, theory and research and concepts.

[tineann]

Hi,

I am sure this information could be gleaned somewhere from this site, but I have not been able to find it. Could someone direct me to the actual link/language to the ANCC which states that NP's would be 'grandfathered' under the proposed DNP "shift", but CNS's would not. I do believe that I have read this statement, but for the life of me, can't locate it.

Thanks!

Christine

[Spacklehead, MSN, NP]

I would say that based on the curricula I have examined at a lot of the schools, there is very little, if any, advanced clinical training that a DNP will get over a masters-prepared nurse. I don't know, maybe there is more clinical stuff buried in the evidence-based medicine classes or something. Which is probably likely why these programs can be done so readily online.

With all due respect, if this is what you have found based upon your research of DNP programs with regards to clinical training then why would you be so adamant about wanting to hire a DNP as you stated in a previous post?

[Spacklehead, MSN, NP]

The thing that I find frustrating about these DNP programs is that there seems to be very little or no acknowledgement of prior NP experience as an MSN if one were to return to get their DNP. What I mean is, why would an MSN-NP who has been practicing full-time for two or more years (just an example) have to accrue the same required amount of clinical hours as the DNP students who entered as BSNs? To me, that is not very encouraging to the experienced MSN grads who would be very willing to go back and get the DNP degree if the required clinical hours were waived or if actual on-the-job "paid" hours were viewed as an acceptable alternate.

Until the schools start recognizing NP work experience as acceptable clinical hour requirements, it would be very difficult for me personally to return for the DNP.

[Spacklehead, MSN, NP]

BAH, sorry! I just realized this was an old thread that was dredged back up!