Grandfather clause for DNP?

elkpark · Jun 7, 2008

They wouldn't be grandfathered "into a DNP" -- the DNP is a degree, and no one would be given a degree that s/he hadn't earned. What that means is that, if the DNP degree becomes the required minimum preparation for becoming an APN (NP, CNS, CNM, CRNA) (and that's still a big "IF" :)), the existing APNs who have MSNs (but not doctoral degrees) wouldn't suddenly stop being APNs one day just because new people have to get a higher degree, and they wouldn't be forced to return to school in order to retain their credentials and APN status.

All of the proposals/discussions I have seen have referred to grandfathering in existing APNs (I'm sure the pro-DNP crowd is well aware that that's the only chance they have of getting anyone else to go along with their agenda -- otherwise, all the existing (Master's-prepared) APNs would fight this to the death).

grad*student · Jun 7, 2008

Yes, all MN/MSN's (or even the old BS degrees) who are NP's will be permitted to continue practicing after the cut-off. This is why I chose the MN route this year -- it was the last year my school offered it!!

After 2015 or so, a DNP will be required for entry into the field (& those who are already in, remain in).

Editorial Team / Admin · Jun 7, 2008

Exactly as elkpark stated, a degree is earned. Current NPs will be grandfathered in to continue practicing as NPs, but will still have MSN, not DNP.

It's much like years back when MSN was made the requirement. All NPs in practice w/o MSN were grandfathered in to continue practicing as NP.

But, many states where the (not MSN-prepared) NP practices is the only state they can practice (since the MSN was made mandatory). They were grandfathered in, but in their state only. If they want to practice out of state, would currently require MSN. I look for something similar to occur with the grandfathering when DNP becomes mandatory.

forpath · Jun 7, 2008

Thanks to all who replied...

That's good...it didn't make sense otherwise...but why would someone hire a non-DNP APN when there will be DNPs from whom to choose?

The non-DNPs won't have as much training.

I would rather hire a DNP, if it came down to it.

yellow finch, BSN, RN · Jun 7, 2008

I know of a practicing CRNA who still only holds a post-BSN certificate. He was grandfathered into the current requirements by keeping his certification active.

I also know of a PA who recently retired that never even earned a baccalaureate degree. He learned his skills in the military and eventually went to work for an orthopaedic surgeon for 25 years.

If you prefer the DNP then it's your choice to hire them. They'll be slim pickings for a very long time, however, as there are probably only a few hundred graduates at this time.

elkpark · Jun 7, 2008

Thanks to all who replied...
That's good...it didn't make sense otherwise...but why would someone hire a non-DNP APN when there will be DNPs from whom to choose?
The non-DNPs won't have as much training.
I would rather hire a DNP, if it came down to it.

DNP program grads may have "more" training, strictly speaking, but it certainly remains to be seen whether they will have better training and it's certainly not a given that they will be better clinicians.

Are you sure that you would "rather" hire a DNP-prepared clinician if it were a choice of a new (or relatively new) grad DNP vs. a MSN-prepared person who has a long, successful record of actual clinical practice/experience? (Which is what the choice is going to be, for some time to come ...)

The entire idea that Master's preparation is not "enough" to prepare a good, competent advanced practice clinician is very new and very controversial. There are a number of other threads here about the DNP proposals -- I suggest that, if you're interested in the subject, you do a search and have a look at them.

forpath · Jun 7, 2008

I know of a practicing CRNA who still only holds a post-BSN certificate. He was grandfathered into the current requirements by keeping his certification active.
I also know of a PA who recently retired that never even earned a baccalaureate degree. He learned his skills in the military and eventually went to work for an orthopaedic surgeon for 25 years.
If you prefer the DNP then it's your choice to hire them. They'll be slim pickings for a very long time, however, as there are probably only a few hundred graduates at this time.

Oh yeah, I know, and I'm not looking right now, but I was just playing the role of someone in 2015 when the DNP becomes the minimum for an APN. I guess if you have an established relationship with an APN and they have proven themselves to be a competent practitioner, then that's different, but if I have to choose between a DNP and a non-DNP APN with equal experience, it would likely not be a difficult choice...except you could likely get away with paying a non-DNP less.

grad*student · Jun 8, 2008

Oh yeah, I know, and I'm not looking right now, but I was just playing the role of someone in 2015 when the DNP becomes the minimum for an APN. I guess if you have an established relationship with an APN and they have proven themselves to be a competent practitioner, then that's different, but if I have to choose between a DNP and a non-DNP APN with equal experience, it would likely not be a difficult choice...except you could likely get away with paying a non-DNP less.

let me guess -- you're not a nurse.

forpath · Jun 8, 2008

DNP program grads may have "more" training, strictly speaking, but it certainly remains to be seen whether they will have better training and it's certainly not a given that they will be better clinicians.
Are you sure that you would "rather" hire a DNP-prepared clinician if it were a choice of a new (or relatively new) grad DNP vs. a MSN-prepared person who has a long, successful record of actual clinical practice/experience? (Which is what the choice is going to be, for some time to come ...)
The entire idea that Master's preparation is not "enough" to prepare a good, competent advanced practice clinician is very new and very controversial. There are a number of other threads here about the DNP proposals -- I suggest that, if you're interested in the subject, you do a search and have a look at them.

Please see my post from 5:11 regarding your first bolded statement. I think I was posting at the same time you were.

Regarding your second bolded statement...I think I've read every post on DNPs here. I find it to be an interesting topic...mostly because it is such a polarizing issue with nurses and physicians. I have the feeling there will be some pretty big turf battles between DNPs and MSNs when the numbers of DNPs starts to go up.

I would say that based on the curricula I have examined at a lot of the schools, there is very little, if any, advanced clinical training that a DNP will get over a masters-prepared nurse. I don't know, maybe there is more clinical stuff buried in the evidence-based medicine classes or something. Which is probably likely why these programs can be done so readily online.

Thanks for responding. I welcome more discussion.

forpath · Jun 8, 2008

let me guess -- you're not a nurse.

Does it matter one way or the other?

Editorial Team / Admin · Jun 8, 2008

Does it matter one way or the other?

I can answer that, forpath. No, it doesn't matter at all. You are obviously gathering information for your future. Glad to see this. Keep on asking questions. You should be well-informed before making decisions about this.