Governator kicks nurses butts!!!

PAMaleRN · Dec 22, 2004

Maybe he would pay attention if each and every nurse just calls in sick on say ah .... anyway you get the point . How may thousand nurses are in CA? All of them not showing up for work for a day or two would make him, the hospital administators and the public in general pay attention. An even bigger statement would be if each and every nurse in the whole country just not work for a day or two. But alas it will never happen.
Rj:angryfire

That's a great idea. All the so called "professional nurses" should call in ill for 1 or 2 days. We can let a few patients die and then everybody will finally see how professional and needed we really are. I just hope a member of your family is not a patient when we do this.

ayndim · Dec 22, 2004

. According to the news report I saw last night there is no law requiring a company to verify if their employees are here legally or not. It is a volunteer system.

Actually that is not true. It is a federal law and the form must be filled out within 3 days of hire. Very hefty fines per day if caught.

DNS · Dec 23, 2004

I am very upset about this. All the nurses in the country were inspired by the great victory in California concerning mandatory safe ratios, and in one instance "Ah-nold" takes it away. All that lobbying and public campaign work by the CNA.... has it now been undone?

Thanks so much for your insert on being a champion. I'm from KS, but I couldn't agree with you more. Good info. dns

begalli · Dec 23, 2004

Don't give up just yet.....

https://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88507

No way are CA nurses going to take this just because Arnold says so.

stevierae · Dec 23, 2004

Oregon here, and this is what I have been told and had to endure when I worked in hospital...we had one per as many as 8 if the census was that high (yeah right, some nights (swing shift) I would have as many as 9 neurovasc/med surg!).

That's why I work in CA, although I LIVE in OR. Have since '95. I moved here from CA in '90. I remember the groundwork and the stikes we had to do to get the safe staffing bill passed in CA, and I am very proud to say that I, along with other CNA nurses, was a part of that. I LOVE living in OR--but the working conditions, salary, and safe staffing are all light years behind CA--maybe because OR seems to be so anti-union and the union we DID have when I worked in OR--OFN--seemed to be sleeping with management. What a bunch of ineffective nurse advocates they were---one thing that they used to say repeatedly, if anyone wanted to file a grievance, was "We need to pick and choose our battles carefully---" in other words, they were pretty much unwilling to go to bat for you, lest they ruffle management's feathers. They really could take a lesson from CNA.

tiggerforhim · Dec 23, 2004

I personally would rather have an overworked nurse at least trying to care for me as opposed to a "transporter" who hasn't a clue. Just my thoughts

Hmmm, and you would then rather die on the floor because the overworked nurse is too busy to come in and see you more than once a shift? And have that nurse lose his/her license? I don't know about you, but one of my concerns besides my patients is to keep from losing my license (and the sole income for my family). When it comes down to it, the nurses get the sack far more often than the doctors or other personnel involved.

kathi yudin · Dec 23, 2004

this is a reply to all who have posted.. while i understand the importance of nursing ratio's and how important they are.. we are all missing a very important fact.. we are in the midst of a major nursing shortage!!!.. there are not enough nurses to fill the open slots needed to be filled with a 1:5 ratio let alone a 1:4!!!.. i applaud governor shcwarzenagger for his wisdom.. we first need to solve the shortage dilemma.. and then work on the ratio's.. there are too few teachers.. 125,000 that can't get into nursing school at the moment..and even with that number.. it is still short what is needed.. i work in a skilled nursing facility.. my nurses have 32 residents each that they are responsible for at any given time!!.. i would love to have more nurses.. i can't get them.. they are not there!!!.. so.. how do we meet the ratio when there is no one there to fill the slots??.. those wanting to lower the ratio.. please tell me how we can deliver care when there aren't nurses to do so...

Cheyenne RN,BSHS · Dec 23, 2004

i can understand the frustration for administration when there are not enough nurses.....but hardly anyone wants to enter the profession under the current conditions. nurses do care. they want to deliver quality care. they want time for teaching and through assessments....but there is not enough time to do the bare minimum.

nurses are leaving the bedside and the profession at a rate higher than ever. part of the reason young people do not want to enter nursing is the reality of never having enough staff to perform safe patient care. nurses are frustrated and the pay scale does not balance the danger we place ourselves in everytime we work the floor with more patients than we can safely handle.

no one wants to work for years to obtain their license and then watch their career end in a malpratice suit. no nurse can physically be in more than one place at a time. a nurse cannot adequately assess a person and monitor their care if they are spread all over the unit with 6.7. or 8 lus patients.

under those circumstances what occurs is minimal care for patients and maximum frustration for the nurses. it can make you feel like the only thing administration cares about is having a warm body with a license to balance their fte's.

there is no shame in saying "no, we cannot admit more patients and will be on diversion" if there are not enough nurses to render safe quality care. priorties are out of balance when administration is afraid they will loose a buck if they don't take an admission, but what about those "settled out of court" lawsuits they have to pay because there was not enough staff with proper time allowed to deliver quality care.

half the errors made in the medical field are due to being rushed, understaffed, and in a hurry. the nursing shortage will continue until people see positive changes and then maybe they will want to enter nursing imho.

music · Dec 23, 2004

this is a reply to all who have posted.. while i understand the importance of nursing ratio's and how important they are.. we are all missing a very important fact.. we are in the midst of a major nursing shortage!!!.. there are not enough nurses to fill the open slots needed to be filled with a 1:5 ratio let alone a 1:4!!!.. i applaud governor shcwarzenagger for his wisdom.. we first need to solve the shortage dilemma.. and then work on the ratio's.. there are too few teachers.. 125,000 that can't get into nursing school at the moment..and even with that number.. it is still short what is needed.. i work in a skilled nursing facility.. my nurses have 32 residents each that they are responsible for at any given time!!.. i would love to have more nurses.. i can't get them.. they are not there!!!.. so.. how do we meet the ratio when there is no one there to fill the slots??.. those wanting to lower the ratio.. please tell me how we can deliver care when there aren't nurses to do so...

Hello everyone,

I have to chime in on this one. I agree with Kathi. I am also a nurse in California and for all the hype the CNA has put out over the ratios.......yes we still have a nursing shortage. It is absolutely the right thing for the Governor to call for a review of the effects of ratios before moving forward with any new changes.

I also have to say that the unprofessional behavior of a few nurses at a large gathering with many well known people attending is no way to impress others as to the importance and profession of nursing. To see nurses out on the sidewalk carrying signs on a stick chanting and then the nurses inside the convention hall who unfurled a banner and chanted loudly, interruting the proceedings.............was not the way I want nursing to be portrayed to thousands of women attending a celebration of our achievements. I'm sure Oprah Winfrey, Queen Noor, Jamie Lee Curtis, Maria Shriver and the thousands of women in that room who have achieved so much in their life did not do it by being unprofessional, demanding and just plain rude.

Shame on those nurses who disrupted this gathering. They do not speak for me nor for many of my colleagues. If we want to be recognized as professionals then first we have to act professional.

I am sick and tired of the CNA and their manipulative, disruptive tactics. This is why many nurses in California choose not to join their ranks. They love to state that they have 60,00 nurses in the CNA. Well I've got news for you. There are over 300,000 nurses in California and the majority are not members of the CNA. Their press is slick and they have media connections that have been used to scold the governor and make it "appear" that all nurses agree with them. Their executive Director was on TV news demanding an apology from the Governor for his remarks calling the nurses a special interest group. Well, I demand an apology from those nurses who acted in such an unprofessional manner and put us all in a bad light.

As far as I'm concerned, the CNA IS a special interest group. A group that is working hard on turning professional nursing into a LABOR UNION..............get it? Special interest group............MANY nurses prefer to be recognized as professionals........not labor union members.

So I am waiting for an apology...............because I was totally disgusted at their behavior and I support the Governor 100% in his leadership on this.

stevierae · Dec 23, 2004

this is a reply to all who have posted.. while i understand the importance of nursing ratio's and how important they are.. we are all missing a very important fact.. we are in the midst of a major nursing shortage!!!.. there are not enough nurses to fill the open slots needed to be filled with a 1:5 ratio let alone a 1:4!!!.. i applaud governor shcwarzenagger for his wisdom.. we first need to solve the shortage dilemma.. and then work on the ratio's..

There is no nursing shortage---that is simply a myth, in my opinion, manufactured by management who want to lay guilt trips on nurses to work mandatory overtime and do more with less---nurses are simply dropping out of bedside care because they are mad as he** and not going to take it anymore....there are actually plenty of nurses, we just won't put up with delivering suboptimal care in order to hand fat bonuses to administrators..

With all due respect, kathi, you work in Southern CA---your wages are FAR less than what we are paid in NORTHERN CA--especailly the San Francisco Bay Area, where I'd say MOST RNs are CNA---that's where I work---

1:6 is the ratio for med-surg. It should be 1:5, if the governor does not have his way. In ICU, it is 1:2; in telemetry, I beleive it is 1:3 or 1:4. THESE ARE RN to PATIENT RATIOS, and they are mandated by LAW--AB 394. One CANNOT use LVNs as a substitute for RNs--they are not allowed to assess. However, management in some CA hospitals tries to get around the law by doing just this.

They also, as punishment" for nurses who demand that they adhere to the law, fire all the nurses' aides and housekeeper--in a sense saying, fine, you've got your RN ratios in place--but NOW you will have to do MORE work instead of taking optimal care of your patients.

Are these the type of people you really want to work for? I don't, and I won't. If you see hospitals not obeying the safe staffing ratios, call the BRN--because the BRN ssupports those ratios, and will NOT allow substitution of LVNs for RNs in safe staffing ratios. It's the LAW, and has been since Jan 1, 2004.

We GOT those ratios because we were radical enough to speaK OUT--long ago, early in the '80s--and go on strike as needed--to DEMAND better patient care and better working conditions.

gwenith, BSN, RN · Dec 23, 2004

this is a reply to all who have posted.. while i understand the importance of nursing ratio's and how important they are.. we are all missing a very important fact.. we are in the midst of a major nursing shortage!!!.. there are not enough nurses to fill the open slots needed to be filled with a 1:5 ratio let alone a 1:4!!!.. i applaud governor shcwarzenagger for his wisdom.. we first need to solve the shortage dilemma.. and then work on the ratio's.. there are too few teachers.. 125,000 that can't get into nursing school at the moment..and even with that number.. it is still short what is needed.. i work in a skilled nursing facility.. my nurses have 32 residents each that they are responsible for at any given time!!.. i would love to have more nurses.. i can't get them.. they are not there!!!.. so.. how do we meet the ratio when there is no one there to fill the slots??.. those wanting to lower the ratio.. please tell me how we can deliver care when there aren't nurses to do so...

Trouble is - it is a self fullfilling prophesy. You can't get staff because no one wants to work 1:32 and you can't improve the odds because you can't get staff. We have a nursing shortage here in Australia too but we are more unionised. Our Critical care ratios are 1:1 1:2 only on meal breaks and only in some facilities. If we do not have the staff we simply close beds. Delay some surgical cases until we DO have the staff. It is AMAZING how much support you get then.

allnurses Guide · Dec 23, 2004

There is no nursing shortage---that is simply a myth, in my opinion, manufactured by management who want to lay guilt trips on nurses to work mandatory overtime and do more with less---nurses are simply dropping out of bedside care because they are mad as he** and not going to take it anymore....there are actually plenty of nurses, we just won't put up with delivering suboptimal care in order to hand fat bonuses to administrators..
With all due respect, kathi, you work in Southern CA---your wages are FAR less than what we are paid in NORTHERN CA--especailly the San Francisco Bay Area, where I'd say MOST RNs are CNA---that's where I work---
1:6 is the ratio for med-surg. It should be 1:5, if the governor does not have his way. In ICU, it is 1:2; in telemetry, I beleive it is 1:3 or 1:4. THESE ARE RN to PATIENT RATIOS, and they are mandated by LAW--AB 394. One CANNOT use LVNs as a substitute for RNs--they are not allowed to assess. However, management in some CA hospitals tries to get around the law by doing just this.
They also, as punishment" for nurses who demand that they adhere to the law, fire all the nurses' aides and housekeeper--in a sense saying, fine, you've got your RN ratios in place--but NOW you will have to do MORE work instead of taking optimal care of your patients.
Are these the type of people you really want to work for? I don't, and I won't. If you see hospitals not obeying the safe staffing ratios, call the BRN--because the BRN ssupports those ratios, and will NOT allow substitution of LVNs for RNs in safe staffing ratios. It's the LAW, and has been since Jan 1, 2004.
We GOT those ratios because we were radical enough to speaK OUT--long ago, early in the '80s--and go on strike as needed--to DEMAND better patient care and better working conditions.

Hi Stevierae - Actually, I'm in Northern California and you are in Central California At least that is how those of us who live north of Sac feel. Most of us think of the Bay Area as not part of rural Northern California. :kiss

Rural nursing in California has its own special needs and trying to comply with the 1:6 ratios has been tough but I think my management and our nurses have done a very good job. We have not fired the CNA's or ward clerks. I work with another RN and at least one CNA and usually two (when our other day CNA gets back from maternity leave).

The California Nurse's Association does not speak for me and it IS a special interest group and the Gov was right to call them that although I don't think he should talk about them as if they are not legitimately representing SOME nurses . . .and special interest is not a dirty word. I have no problem with people organizing to make changes (CNA). Just don't say you represent me. Because you don't.

I don't believe that this is an either/or situation. It isn't black/white . . good guy/bad guy. The more we portray hospitals and administrators as evil, the less work we will get done to advance our patient's well-being and safety. And hospitals/administrators need to not portray nurses in a bad light either.

I think Music and Kathi make some very good points.

I know my DON and our little rural hospital works very hard for the nurses. And they need more time to implement the ratios. There are bugs galore . . .

steph