Governator kicks nurses butts!!!

SmilingBluEyes · Dec 9, 2004

they are doing what they can to change those laws. dont' know if it will happen, but Aahhnold for Prez, HELLLLLL NO.

Tony35NYC · Dec 9, 2004

I think that one of the reasons health care costs so much and therefore leaves much less money to go for nurses wages is the drain that illegals put on the system. My solution to increase the profits of the hospitals and thereby increase the money available to the nursing profession is to bill the federal government for the services performed on illegals. The federal govt. is supposed to protect our borders. And before you say we pay the taxes they will spend I say tax any company that moves their production overseas to pay for it. Also tax any company here that hires a certain % of their workforce from non-citizens. This is exactly what the border states are beginning to do.

I don't know about this. There is no reliable information that proves that illegals alone are to be blamed for the high cost of healthcare except for biased studies commissioned by anti-immigration groups. Reliable sources of information show that there are many factors driving the high cost of healthcare, including: the high cost of liability risks due to outrageous tort claims and awards, the increasing number of senior citizens needing care, increasing costs of managing chronic diseases like AIDS and cancer, and the ever-increasing costs of managing lifestyle diseases resulting from things like obesity and tobacco use.

Last time I read about this was at about a year ago, so the numbers may be different now but it was something like 60% of Americans who don't have health insurance. We're not talking about illegal aliens here, but legal US residents. With so many people having little or no health insurance the state and federal governments have no choice but to assume some of the healthcare expenses through medicare and medicaid. I don't see anything wrong with the government paying some of these costs for taxpayers who don't have adequate health insurance because they find plenty of other ways to squander our tax money anyway.

Illegal aliens do not qualify for any federal or state aid, so any healthcare expenses they incur usually get eaten by the hospitals and are frequently paid for with community access grants that just about every hospital receives from private donors. And, maybe you could explain a bit more why companies who hire non-citizens should pay more taxes when legal, non-citizen wage earners pay the same taxes that citizens do? You are assuming that if the hospitals made more profit they would pay nurses higher salaries. I have to disagree with you on that one. When a for-profit hospital makes money most of that money goes into the shareholders' pockets, not to the nursing staff.

pickledpepperRN · Dec 9, 2004

Letters to the editor. I am posting just one of many. Scroll down to read under those of another topic:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/12/09/EDGSVA88PP1.DTL

Editor -- I am a long standing member of the California Nurses Association.

The governor was correct in stating we are a special-interest group.

Our special interest is assuring the best possible care for our patients.

That's why we fought for nurse-to-patient ratios and that's why we will continue to fight.

Our special interest is you.

FRAN NORDGREN, R.N.

boulergirl, CNA · Dec 9, 2004

I have a friend who thinks Arnold's the bomb. Wonder if his tune will change when I tell him what the Guvernator thinks about nurses.

NurseGuy_in_06 · Dec 9, 2004

I don't know about this. There is no reliable information that proves that illegals alone are to be blamed for the high cost of healthcare except for biased studies commissioned by anti-immigration groups. Reliable sources of information show that there are many factors driving the high cost of healthcare, including: the high cost of liability risks due to outrageous tort claims and awards, the increasing number of senior citizens needing care, increasing costs of managing chronic diseases like AIDS and cancer, and the ever-increasing costs of managing lifestyle diseases resulting from things like obesity and tobacco use.
Last time I read about this was at about a year ago, so the numbers may be different now but it was something like 60% of Americans who don't have health insurance. We're not talking about illegal aliens here, but legal US residents. With so many people having little or no health insurance the state and federal governments have no choice but to assume some of the healthcare expenses through medicare and medicaid. I don't see anything wrong with the government paying some of these costs for taxpayers who don't have adequate health insurance because they find plenty of other ways to squander our tax money anyway.
Illegal aliens do not qualify for any federal or state aid, so any healthcare expenses they incur usually get eaten by the hospitals and are frequently paid for with community access grants that just about every hospital receives from private donors. And, maybe you could explain a bit more why companies who hire non-citizens should pay more taxes when legal, non-citizen wage earners pay the same taxes that citizens do? You are assuming that if the hospitals made more profit they would pay nurses higher salaries. I have to disagree with you on that one. When a for-profit hospital makes money most of that money goes into the shareholders' pockets, not to the nursing staff.

I hardly see where stating the obvious, that illegals who are here with no insurance and get treated at the hospitals for free, can be called a biased anti-immigration report. Many factors Do drive up the high cost of health care, including frivilous lawsuits. The other items you stated that help drive up health care costs are also contributing factors. I don't know about the "private donors" who help pay hospital costs but I do know that in my relatively small community our county hospital receives around $40,000,000 per year from the COUNTY government to cover indigent care, paid for with local taxes. This is the hospital where people go who have no insurance. An ever-increasing % of these are non-citizens. I am assuming nothing but I do know that if a hospital is making money they can afford to pay nurses more. Legal non-citizens generally do NOT pay taxes for the first seven years they are here. I believe companies have an obligation to hire qualified citizens first. Taxing them higher would provide an incentive to stop hiring illegals. According to the news report I saw last night there is no law requiring a company to verify if their employees are here legally or not. It is a volunteer system.

Jambam · Dec 22, 2004

"

What are the ratios in your state???..Oregon here, and this is what I have been told and had to endure when I worked in hospital...we had one per as many as 8 if the census was that high (yeah right, some nights (swing shift) I would have as many as 9 neurovasc/med surg!). I have heard it was the same in Washington state, but don't quote me on that.

I work in Washington State at a Catholic owned hospital. I am on the Med-Surge Floor. Our staffing ratio on a full day is 1 nurse for every 6 patients. Usually we have 5 patients per nurse. It is a wonderful hospital to work for and they treat their nurses very good! I feel very fortunate to have landed this job right out of nursing school. Our staff is very team oriented and help each other out when we have a heavy load or difficult patients. We are a relatively small hospital and do not have a psych ward. Consequently, all psych patients get admitted to the med unit. There is a lot of recreational drug usage in this area that has affected the mental health of our patient population. This can create new challenges in itself. I personally believe that it should be illegal to staff one nurse with over 6 patients. I read about a study (sorry I don't know the name of it) that talked about death rate percentages for every patient a nurse has over 4 patients. It went up 7% for each patient over 4. Perhaps Governor Schwarzenegar should have some his family taken care of by an overstaffed nurse. Perhaps then he would understand the dangers that brings not only to the patient but to the safety of the nurse as well. Here's keeping my fingers crossed that he can never run for president.

dunnthat · Dec 22, 2004

The administrator at our hospital said in a meeting with nurses that "any competent nurse can safely care for 8 patients. And if a nurse feels like they cannot do their job safely then they are welcome to leave and will not be stopped from leaving". Of course this is a man who recieves a sizable bonus every year by keeping costs down in our hospital. My personal opinion? The man is a total idiot! Any person who believes such crap is an idiot! This same CEO blames the poor patient satisfaction ratios in our hospital on the Nurses. Not the fact that the nurses are doing all they can to care for our patients but are overwelmed when these eight patients need help at the same time. We are outgunned by administration. We have no true backing. Because of people like this administrator and Your Guvinator we will never be able to achieve safe nursing ratios.

zehava · Dec 22, 2004

As a northern Californian I was shocked and shamed that a steroid pumped "B" actor who thinks,speaks, and acts from his steroid aggressive enduced mind could actually become the Governor. His vocabulary sounds like he is filming one of his macho killer movies. I'm afraid he is going to be a problem as long as he is in office because it appears he intends to please his "bosses". And lets not forget about Ahnold for President!
Zehava

kathi yudin · Dec 22, 2004

Okay let me see if I am getting this right...at first I thought the bill he rejected would ratio out 1 nurse to 6 patients..but it was already 1 nurse to 6 patients and he rejected a bill to make it 1 nurse to 5 patients????
Okay I support my fellow nurses out there, but wow...it is 1 nurse to 8 patients here by law...to have 6 only would be great! Maybe he sees that it worked in other states...and that is why he rejected it??? Maybe we should focus on a National ratio and get everyone on the same page..that may help?!?!?! I mean, if other states have a larger ratio..go figure someone may do a bit of that "well if they can do it..so can we" especially someone that doesn't give a hoot?
What are the ratios in your state???..Oregon here, and this is what I have been told and had to endure when I worked in hospital...we had one per as many as 8 if the census was that high (yeah right, some nights (swing shift) I would have as many as 9 neurovasc/med surg!). I have heard it was the same in Washington state, but don't quote me on that.

i am all for nursing ratio's.. i think the purpose is great and is important.. but.. we are forgetting one important fact.. where are we going to get the nurses for this new ratio from???.. we are in a nursing shortage!!... there are NOT enough nurses out there to cover all of the hospitals that will require this shortage!!.. where do the patients go when they are turned away from emergency rooms because they don't have the staff to maintain the ratio's??.. lets work on educating the students that want to be nurses ... get them into the field.. and then.. work with the ratio's..!!..we have to be realistic here.. i would love to have my nurses have less patients in the nursing home.. but.. there is not the staff to do so!!!.. so.. lets work on the cause before we work on the effect...

Spiderella · Dec 22, 2004

I hardly see where stating the obvious, that illegals who are here with no insurance and get treated at the hospitals for free, can be called a biased anti-immigration report. Many factors Do drive up the high cost of health care, including frivilous lawsuits. The other items you stated that help drive up health care costs are also contributing factors. I don't know about the "private donors" who help pay hospital costs but I do know that in my relatively small community our county hospital receives around $40,000,000 per year from the COUNTY government to cover indigent care, paid for with local taxes. This is the hospital where people go who have no insurance. An ever-increasing % of these are non-citizens. I am assuming nothing but I do know that if a hospital is making money they can afford to pay nurses more. Legal non-citizens generally do NOT pay taxes for the first seven years they are here. I believe companies have an obligation to hire qualified citizens first. Taxing them higher would provide an incentive to stop hiring illegals. According to the news report I saw last night there is no law requiring a company to verify if their employees are here legally or not. It is a volunteer system.

Nurse Guy, you really sound biased in your reports, I don't know if it's from personal experience or just narrowmindedness, but as the previous author said, there is no supportive evidence that illegals are the primary factor in driving up health costs. There is no supportive evidence that illegals are the primary factor in driving up health costs. There is no supportive evidence that illegals are the primary factor in driving up health costs. There are many more CITIZENS that don't have insurance, who come to the hospital and get treated anyway. Why aren't you saying that they are causing the rising costs as well? Also, foreigner's generally try not to come to the hospital unless it's something serious. They are acutely aware of the fact that they don't have insurance, and so if they do seek your help, it's because they are desparate for it. As for your statement that "Legal non-citizens generally do NOT pay taxes for the first seven years they are here."..that is an utter fallacy. I know several foreigners, legal non-citizens, and 'illegals' as you so call them, and they do pay taxes. Taxes are automatically deducted from all of your paychecks like it is for everyone else. The only way not to pay taxes is if you get paid under the table, or you change your # of dependants, something that both CITIZENS and foreigners have the right to do. As for the companies obligation to hiring citizens first....FYI: companies are not allowed to hire illegals. They can get into serious trouble for doing so, tax laws would be the least of their worries. They can lose their license to practice and have to pay serious fines. If citizens were as qualified and had as much education as foreigners, then maybe they would stand a better chance in the interviewing process and would quit griping about how foreigners are stealing their jobs.

dansdoll · Dec 22, 2004

All this discussion re ratios is nice and all but the thing we need to rememeber is when ER RN's "hold" pts in the ED who are awaiting admission because the floors are "understaffed" mortality rates increase dramatically, so does cost for the pt, the facility and the community. Labs and procedures performed in the ED as opposed to the floor cost 2-3 times as much. Pts would receive better care ont the floor with a nurse who has one or two more pts than the desired level as opposed to being completly ignored in an ER full of unstable and therefore more critical pts. It is nothing uncommon to move admitted pts into the hallway of our ER, no monitor, no nurse at all, just a "transporter" assigned to make sure they don't die (maybe) before they get to the floor, because the room and monitor and RN are reassigned to a more critical pt. I personally would rather have an overworked nurse at least trying to care for me as opposed to a "transporter" who hasn't a clue. Just my thoughts.

aila49 · Dec 22, 2004

What are the ratios in your state???..Oregon here, and this is what I have been told and had to endure when I worked in hospital...we had one per as many as 8 if the census was that high (yeah right, some nights (swing shift) I would have as many as 9 neurovasc/med surg!). I have heard it was the same in Washington state, but don't quote me on that.

Triage RN_34,

I am a WA State nurse who is currently in CA on travel assignment. I work ICU, so there is always a set number of patients to care for, which is two. Here we also have the tele patients, which is another set ratio of three.

I sometimes float to Med/Surg when ICU census is low. We are expected to pick up six patients. This is without any CNA help. I feel like I do not address the problems of the patients. I am someone to help to commode, give meds, take vital signs, etc. I can go the entire 12 hour shift and only see a patient three times during my shift. This is very frustrating.

The law is worded in such a way to be broken. Nursing must have the ratio of 6:1 on the floor at all times. If I go for a break, take lunch, or am off the floor for any reason, there must be another nurse to take over my patients. This is where the hospitals are complaining. They say it is impossible to have someone to care for those patients during the time I am off the floor without calling in another nurse. :crying2:

I have seen those advertisements also about the nurses thanking the governor for changing the ratio. I want to choke everytime I see them. I would love to have the governor, a member of his family, or that cute little nurse as my patient on some night when I have two falling out of bed, one detox, and three that need new IV sites.:angryfire

It is not a pretty picture here in CA. I agree that if nursing standards are to be done, they must be confronted on a national level, not state to state. Our money grabbing unions are supposed to be working for us, but I do not see much happening there.

I plan to take one more assignment in CA when my contract ends at this hospital, then I am off to other states. I know these other states are looking at CA and the law of patient ratios. It is very scary to think that hospitals are continuing to place patient care below monetary gain.

BTW, the census in WA State is 8:1 on the med/surg floor.

Nora