Getting yelled at by a doctor for the first time....

[NewbieNurse93]

So, I've been a nurse for about 6 months now and have been off orientation since the end of October, so I'm still pretty new and still learning new things. Today, I had a doctor yell at me for the first time.

Long story short, the attending dr and the consulting dr both agreed to discharge my patient. However, none of them were able to write a pain script for discharge. When brought to the attention of the attending that rounded that day, he basically said, "oh, well, she'll just have to stay another night and then go home tomorrow. I'm home now and won't come in to write a script."

The patient was devastated and stated her frustration with this. She also lives hours away and told me about having to get her son back home so he can get back to school. As her advocate, I did my best to try to make her discharge happen, because I feel like staying another night for just a pain script is a pretty poor reason to have to stay. I had called a partner of the attending who was also rounding that day, but was not the "on-call" dr. I didn't think anything of this because this dr was rounding with the on-call dr that day, and made the mistake of thinking that he too was on-call for that group. He was more than happy to help discharge the patient. The patient was so happy and thankful that I was able to get her out that day and I felt good that I was able to help her and her son.

At at the end of my shift, I had received a call from the on-call dr who had called me just to yell at me over the phone about the patients discharge. He said things like "How DARE you go behind my back and call another dr!!!" and "you better NEVER let this happen again." I've never had anyone speak to me the way he did and I kind of froze on the phone. I apologized to him for any mistakes that I had made and he hung up on me.

Has as anyone else experienced this? How do you deal with this? I was feeling so good and finally starting to feel like I'm doing a good job at work, now I feel like a horrible nurse....

[DowntheRiver]

Where do you live that providers can't write scripts from home? 1985?

Here in Florida, I believe most narcotic scripts need an actual signature on them and not a printed/stamped signature.

[Davey Do]

You did good, NewbieNurse. I'm also impressed by this:

I apologized to him for any mistakes that I had made and he hung up on me.

On the rare occasions doctors have yelled at me over the phone, I merely apologize.

Apologizing gives them no fuel to feed the fire. That's probably why the doctor stopped yelling and just hung up.

On one occasion when a hospitalist yelled at me, I sensed it was because he felt inadequate. I was okay being the so-called sacrificial lamb and continued to apologize until he eventually wore down and stopped yelling.

It's been many years ago,but somehow it seems to me we dealt with the situation and the hospitalist offered me an apology, of sorts.

All's well that ends well.

Keep on keeping on, NewbieNurse!

[Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN]

Cinnamonlove -- "They are raised like this and you won't be able to fix it."

True the OP can't fix it -- grown adults are responsible for moderating and fixing their OWN overgrown toddler behaviors.

However she absolutely has the right to call him out on it and not deal with verbal violence at work. People like this don't respond to subtle hints -- whether it's someone who verbally abuses his spouse, a kid who bullies others on the playground or online, a child who is being disrespectful to her parents.... or a highly educated alleged professional who chooses to throw temper tantrums rather than behave like a professional.

[Munch]

(my bold)

Are you seriously suggesting that we should just accept that some people can't communicate in a non-violent manner? I disagree. First of all, aggression and violence isn't acceptable behavior in the workplace (or in society in general). Also, it's been my experience that most people are capable of and will adjust their behavior in a positive direction if they are sufficiently motivated.

THIS. Just because someone can't communicate in a civil and socially acceptable way doesn't mean I am going to stand there and take it. You put up with someones defective social skills one time and they are going to think it is okay to communicate that way and guess what it isn't! This doctor is the one with the issue not the OP. Suggesting to have empathy for someone who reacted to the OPs actions in anger is something I wouldn't advise. Suggesting the poor woman stay in the hospital for one more night is ludacris..the doctor could have picked up the phone and called any number of his colleagues to write the script for his patient..problem solved in less than 60 seconds.

[wondern, ASN]

Aw, join the fan club. It's official now!

It sounds like you made the best of a bad situation for the patient first, then also in your conversation. I was thinking it would feel kind of good to hang up first but you let him be the jerk so good for you for not lowering to his level.

You went high when he went low!

[cinnamonlove]

Hi macawake, I think you totally misinterpreted my message. I am not suggesting that we should accept the angry behavior, but instead try to understand the reason behind it. We all like to be treated in a respectfully way, but you will be miserable if you expect others to be nice and respectful all the time. There will be times when people will lose their temper either at work or privately. We are human. Unfortunately, there are many who don't have the emotional intelligence to control their anger, but this does not mean they are bad people. They simply don't know how to express themselves without yelling or using hurtful words. To answer aggression with aggression isn't the best solution to fix the issue, instead try to talk to the person calmly face to face and express your needs for respect and professional behavior. And if this does not help and the person continues to dehumanize YOU then I suggest bringing it up to another person on the stuff. This is a personal view based on my 7 years experiences in the medical field. We don't have to agree. I respect your opinion and I expect you to respect mine.

[Apple-Core, ASN, BSN, RN]

If it was me - and I do appreciate that this wouldn't work for everybody - but I would seek out that Doc next chance you get and say something like: "I have given it some thought about the way you spoke to me on the phone the other evening, and I just want to say that I found it both hostile and unprofessional. I don't ever want to be spoke to like that again, and I expect you to extend the same civility and respect that I do you, Thank you". If he stands their with his mouth hanging open, just walk away with a friendly smile.

[opalbee]

You handled the situation for your patient perfectly.

"I apologized to him for any mistakes " is where you went wrong. Never let Dr. God speak to you that way,let alone apologize. Back in the day.. I had a jerk doc attending point his finger at me for calling his pager, instead of his office. I told him to put that effing finger down.

You are standing up for your patient, now stand up for yourself.

I've always wondered about situations like this. I've yet to work a job in healthcare yet (I have an offer right now, though, and am thinking about taking it) but from what I've read from books/articles and the nurses on this website... It almost seems like nurses have to take a doctor's "****" because the hospital cares more about the physicians, and that the physicians have a way of "getting what they want" when they don't want you around anymore.

When you told him to "put that finger down", how did he react? What could you have done in this situation had he chosen to keep disrespecting you? I ask this out of genuine concern because I'm not sure how I would/should/or could handle a situation like that.

[opalbee]

Hi macawake, I think you totally misinterpreted my message. I am not suggesting that we should accept the angry behavior, but instead try to understand the reason behind it. We all like to be treated in a respectfully way, but you will be miserable if you expect others to be nice and respectful all the time. There will be times when people will lose their temper either at work or privately. We are human. Unfortunately, there are many who don't have the emotional intelligence to control their anger, but this does not mean they are bad people. They simply don't know how to express themselves without yelling or using hurtful words. To answer aggression with aggression isn't the best solution to fix the issue, instead try to talk to the person calmly face to face and express your needs for respect and professional behavior. And if this does not help and the person continues to dehumanize YOU then I suggest bringing it up to another person on the stuff. This is a personal view based on my 7 years experiences in the medical field. We don't have to agree. I respect your opinion and I expect you to respect mine.

I mean... I don't think the doctor is a "spring chick". He's probably older, he's had 8+ years of training, plus however long he's actually been working as a doctor... I think by now, there's absolutely no excuse as to why he should have yelled at OP like that. I don't care if he has a hard time controlling his anger- do you think that I could yell at my manager like that and walk away with my job still? So why should he be able to?

From my experience, a lot of times I think people are capable of controlling their emotions, but they choose not to because they want to take take their anger out on someone or because (and I think this is the case in OP's situation) they want to feel like their in power by putting down another person. I saw it all the time in retail when a cashier would get promoted to a customer service manager. Or when they tried to play "pretend manager" to their co-workers of the same level.

Also, and I say this respectfully... But I completely disagree with having to "respect everyone's opinion". If I think someone's opinion is unrealistic or bizarre or silly and I can clearly think of major flaws with it, then why should I respect it? I hold my opinions to the same accountability. If someone doesn't respect my opinion, then I want to know why or talk about it so I can see if maybe I need to think differently, as well. And, just to put this out there: when I say I wouldn't respect a person's opinion, that does not mean I disrespect that person personally.

EDIT: I'm also having a really hard time seeing how Macawake's response to yours was "disrespectful". She/he responded objectively on how they saw your interpretation of the situation and asked for clarification.

[opalbee]

Cinnamonlove -- "They are raised like this and you won't be able to fix it."

True the OP can't fix it -- grown adults are responsible for moderating and fixing their OWN overgrown toddler behaviors.

...or a highly educated alleged professional who chooses to throw temper tantrums rather than behave like a professional.

THIS.

[cinnamonlove]

Wow opalbee, CNA, You have a PhD in Psychology and another one in the Law. Man, I am jealous.

[opalbee]

Wow opalbee, CNA, You have a PhD in Psychology and another one in the Law. Men, I am jealous.

LOL! I'm not sure where your rude comment came from. You literally gave your opinion on how "the doctor wasn't able to control his emotions" and you come back and mock me for saying that he should be able to?

I was polite in my response to you. I was trying to approach the situation rationally, but I guess you took that as an attack towards you personally, somehow. I guess you missed the part where I said "If someone disagrees with me, I want to know why and see if I need to change my view point."

Either you disagree with having mature discussions, or you don't care. Either way, maybe you shouldn't be giving your opinion on what behavior is acceptable.

EDIT: "Wow, opal bee, CNA, you have a PhD in psychology.." Are you mocking me for being a CNA, as well? I don't think the users on this website would take that very well. I might be a CNA, but that doesn't mean I lack critical thinking skills.