getting an AGENCY or DIRECT HIRING???

suzanne4, RN · Jan 3, 2006

Check out the answer that I posted in response to your other thread on the Introductions.

Nurse Dependent · Jan 5, 2006

hello! i am a filipino. i passed the nclex-rn for california already. i'm planning to go the states this april. i am wondering if getting an agency in the states is better because many says that it is better to get an agency because everything will be more easier in getting a job and the processing for changing my tourist visa status to working visa status will be more faster and some agencies do not affect the nurse's salary but instead they are paid by the hospital. i don't know if these are true! please help me... should i get an agency or should i go for direct hiring?

using a tourist visa to shortcut the process has its built-in complications.

and in my humble opinion, this casts a bad light to other filipinos who are applying for a tourist visa solely for touring purposes. a thin-line separates being a tnt and plans of changing your visa status at the onset.

this is flat-out unfair to hardworking, more deserving, true-blue nurses who are going through the normal motion of cp. try to ask dhel, rep, and the other nurses around here who waited years because they chose to undergo the proper and legal way.

in fact if you ask himdale, what you're planning to do constitutes visa fraud.

otherwise, live and let live.

thanks.

jash · Jan 5, 2006

using a tourist visa to shortcut the process has its built-in complications.
and in my humble opinion, this casts a bad light to other filipinos who are applying for a tourist visa solely for touring purposes. a thin-line separates being a TNT and plans of changing your visa status at the onset.
this is flat-out unfair to hardworking, more deserving, true-blue nurses who are going through the normal motion of CP. try to ask dhel, rep, and the other nurses around here who waited years because they chose to undergo the proper and legal way.
in fact if you ask himdale, what you're planning to do constitutes visa fraud.
otherwise, live and let live.
thanks.

****thank you for your opinion and warning.:wink2:

pinoy_guy · Jan 5, 2006

i don't understand this post.

using a tourist visa to shortcut the process has its built-in complications.

what complications?

can you be more specific?

you're lumping 2 processes--consular processing and adjustment of status--into one.

the adjustment of status is shorter than the consular processing, but it's not a "shortcut."

if you ask an american lawyer, they don't know any "shortcuts" for nurses getting immigrant visas.

and in my humble opinion, this casts a bad light to other filipinos who are applying for a tourist visa solely for touring purposes.

huh?

a thin-line separates being a tnt and plans of changing your visa status at the onset.

in my opinion, a large gap separates the tnt from the others.

the tnt has no intention of using a legitimate avenue for becoming a documented resident.

this is flat-out unfair

huh?

life is not fair. i had been treated unfairly a lot of times in my life--but i just moved on.

to hardworking,

who passes judgment on who's hardworking and who's not?

more deserving,

huh???

who decides who's deserving, more deserving, or not deserving???

are you implying that some people are less deserving???

true-blue nurses

huh???

is there such a thing???

this is the first time i've come across different colors of nurses.

but never fear: us laws prohibit discrimination based on skin color.

who are going through the normal motion of cp.

from an immigration handbook at national book store, there are 2 ways of getting an immigrant visa: consular processing and adjustment of status.

i didn't find any process described as "abnormal." both were described as legitimate avenues.

try to ask dhel, rep, and the other nurses around here

wait, are you a nurse?

who waited years because they chose to undergo the proper and legal way.

oh. so this is your gripe.

in fact if you ask himdale, what you're planning to do constitutes visa fraud.

is he a lawyer?

why should we take his word on a legal definition?

otherwise, live and let live.

agree.

let the person decide for himself.

now let me be honest with you.

some of my friends had tourist visas and went the adjustment of status route...and are now in the us earning dollars, sending dollars home to help with their children's education. they could not afford the tuition fees here anymore, so they decided to leave. it's heart-breaking when i chat with them, as it's very painful for them to be separated from their spouses and children.

on the flip side, i have friends who do not have tourist visas, and are going through consular processing. a couple had been waiting for 3 years already, earning p6,000 a month each, teaching nursing subjects. the money is not enough to cover transportation, food, and the expenses needed to buy books and make transparencies for their lectures. they were in near panic when word got out about the nurses who were sent home for interview because "their papers got recalled." they cried for they could not endure another 3-year wait.

i will be clear: i do not begrudge my friends, nor strangers, who have tourist visas and use them for adjustment of status.

it's their luck, their advantage, and they're free to use them as they see fit.

i am happy for them, that they're much better off financially now.

they said there is a risk they'll be out of status, but it's a gamble they took.

i will be honest: if i had a tourist visa, i would go the adjustment of status route.

instead, i think i'll be joining my friends in their teaching job.

i want your honest answer: if you (presuming you're a nurse) or your wife had tourist visas, would you be posting this?

since this is an international forum, and it does not claim to be a "fair" forum, i think information about the adjustment of status route should not be followed by posts like this.

it's very misleading.

just my opinion.

himdale · Jan 6, 2006

Pinoy Guy,

There are complications in using a tourist visa. Ofcourse you would not be going for Consular Processing if you are already in the U.S. so it is Adjustment of Status. Adjustment of Status can be used let's say if you are under working visa, H1B for example.

There are two types of tourist visas.

The B1 and B2. Most of the Filipinos go for B2.

Here you can find the simplest explanation at the u.s. embassy website

http://usembassy.state.gov/manila/wwwhniv5.html

Start of quote

What are the allowable uses of a B1/B2 Visa?

The B1 visa allows for temporary visitors to conduct business in the U.S. This includes such things as a need to consult with business associates, negotiate a contract, buy goods or materials, settle an estate, appear in a court trial, and participate in business or professional conventions or conferences. This visa does not generally allow for gainful employment. The B2 visa is issued for the purpose of touring, visits to friends and relatives, visits for rest or medical treatment, social or fraternal conventions and conferences, and amateur/unpaid participants in cultural or sports events.

Can I go to the United States to work? While you may go to the United States on a B-1/B-2 visa on business, working for a short time for a foreign employer, you may not be employed or paid by a U.S. party. To be employed in the United States, you must have a working visa (H-1, H-2, E-1, E-2, or L-1).

End of quote

As these visas simply defined "you may not be employed or paid" because your purpose there is simply to visit.

Even in the interview process and when the consular officer issues a tourist visa the officer thinks that the one being issued a visa will be coming back to the Philippines. This is what the law states.

Start of quote

How do you decide whether or not to issue a visa? What does 214(b) mean?

For business and tourist visas (B-1/B-2), each applicant must qualify under section 214(b) of the U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), which states:

"Every alien shall be presumed to be an immigrant until he establishes to the satisfaction of the officer, at the time of the application for a visa . . . that he is entitled to nonimmigrant status . . . Essentially, the visa officer is looking to see that the applicant has compelling reasons to return to the Philippines. By law, the burden of proof is on the applicant to show that he or she qualifies for the visa. This proof may come in many forms, but when considered together, it must be strong enough for the interviewing officer to conclude that your ties to the Philippines will bring you back at the end of a temporary stay in the United States.

End of quote

WHEN YOU HAVE A TOURIST VISA YOU HAVE THE INTENTION TO RETURN TO YOUR HOME COUNTRY AND HAVE NO INTENTION TO STAY PERMANENTLY IN THE U.S. IT CONSTITUTES FRAUD IF YOU DO NOT RETURN.

For the TNT's

I guess all TNT's would want to become legal/documented/permanent residents. They have the intention to do but can't because they are out of status, undocumented. It is the U.S. Immigration Law that restricts them to be legal.

It is true that because of the economic situation of the Philippines most of us would want to jump off this sinking ship to save ourselves and our future. My point with Nurse Dependent is that there are legal ways to do this and it would not affect others who would really want to use a tourist visa for tourist or visiting purposes. The Philippines ranks as one of the highest where fraud in u.s. immigration is being committed. Sad but true.

Earning a green card is NOT A RIGHT! It is a privilege given to deserving individuals who had done it the legal way and with accordance of the law.

still_dale

lawrence01 · Jan 6, 2006

Is there a visa available for the purpose of finding a job in the US (providing you can give proof that you can work their legally such as having passed the NCLEX RN nd having a VisaScreen certificate).

I've noticed that in the electronic application form for a non-immigrant visa, there's a question there that asks if you have an intention to work and if yes, what's the name of the employer? The form isn't specific of what kind of visa. It just says there non-immigrant visa form.

Would some comment about this? Thanks.

Nurse Dependent · Jan 6, 2006

dear pinoy guy:

hi, i am thankful for and fully respect your opinion, even if you're so displeased with mine as evidenced by your spirited and point-by-point denunciation of my views (i'd like to think that some were not meant to ridicule).

this forum has truly benefited my family (as others, i'm sure) because of the advise, guidance, and these differing points of view on immigration issues.

please allow me to answer some of your points as i deem them non-rhetorical but as direct questions posed:

1. the complications of the aos route have been discussed all over this forum. in fact, i think suzanne mentioned some in her answer to jhas's query in the introductions thread.

2. it is my personal belief that in general, life is fair. wicked people are not. i laud you for personally sharing with us that with such an experience, you always choose to move on. as should always be the case. for me, i try to take affirmative action as much as i can because i believe in the saying that the "sins of the indifferent are far worse than those of the wicked."

3. yes, i personally think some pinoy nurses are not deserving of a gc. in fact, some shouldn't have been nurses in the first place. have i the right to judge who is deserving, hardworking, or sincere in their chosen profession? no. never. it is their co-workers and patients who'd eventually be the judge of that.

4. no, i am not a nurse. that's my wife's sacred calling. my service-orientation is of a different kind.

5. i understand that himdale is neither a laywer nor a nurse. i believe that he is just a person like you, who means well, and tries to share what he knows to aid others, to the best of his abilities.

6. yes. we have a valid 10-year, multiple tourist visa. in fact, we were in the bay area fall of 2004 for close to 4 weeks. we had so much fun and achieved moments of epiphany there, that this visit to the us cemented our decision to finally submit ourselves to this process.

my friend, i stand by my opinions, however flawed it may be to you (or to some). they are not meant to mislead others.

it is my fervent hope that differing opinions within this forum aid would-be applicants in asking their immigration lawyers or consultants relevant questions before embarking on anything.

anyway, i don't have an iota of an inclination to believe that my opinion would sway tourist visa holders (who are planning to go by way of theaos route) to decide otherwise.

one's character, financial motivations, and the expert advise of their immigration lawyer would eventually lead them to their final decision.

that is why i am thankful for this forum.

ps

by the way, i had a blast with your comment on my "true-blue nurse" bit. your attempt at sarcasm was so funny! :chuckle (by the way, i agree that us law prohibits discrimination. never stopped some people, though).

dear jash:

i thank you for taking my points in good spirit, albeit some are just personal in nature and not at all from an expert's point of view.

i'm sure you are thankful too for this forum because it provides us with tons of information, advise, and opinions that help us all.

after all's been said and done, and through the advise of your immigration lawyer, you'd do what you think is right for you anyway, right?

good luck.

dear all:

if some of you are smitten by my opinion in this thread, i sincerely apologize.

these are mere opinions.

thank you, all.

pinoy_guy · Jan 6, 2006

himdale,

read through my post above again.

i respect your opinion, please respect mine.

your warnings duly noted, but have to be balanced by facts.

look through the immigration handbooks available--even the ones for mexicans--and they say that adjustment of status is legal.

fyi, a friend read your voluminous posts on different fora regarding the "illegality" of using her tourist visa to get an adjustment of status...she was scared of being deported or jailed if she did that.

she let her tourist visa expire.

the result? she's very depressed now, especially when she learns about her friends who had not read such "scare" posts...and went with the adjustment of status.

her friends are now in the us, sending dollars here to their spouses and kids, waiting for their papers.

my friend is a single mother, and is so ashamed of asking money for food and tuition for her child.

she was so depressed she even considered suicide.

my point is your posts affect people.

people tend to believe your quotes and liberal use of legal jargon.

are you a lawyer, and are you offering your professional advice?

i'm asking because some people accepted your words as gospel truth.

in my opinion, friendly advice is ok, but scaring people crosses the line.

we are presumably all adults here, we have free will to make our own decisions. and we can only make good decisions if we have good data.

helpful data means reliable data--what worked for you, or a friend.

not some anecdote about the friend of a friend of a friend who took the nclex in hong kong and got deported the minute he stepped into the us port of entry.

again, i reiterate that if i had a tourist visa, i will go the adjustment of status route.

i don't, so i will be starting my job as a teacher next week, and i expect to be working as one for the next 2 or 3 years.

i want your honest answer: if you (presuming you're a nurse) or your spouse had tourist visas, would you be posting this?

can you swear that if you had tourist visa you wouldn't be going the adjustment of status route?

himdale · Jan 6, 2006

Pinoy Guy,

Yes AOS is legal no question about it. But Adjusting Status while on a Tourist Visa according to the law is not.

It is true that there are thousands of documented cases that people are being deported and sometimes jailed because of their illegal status in the U.S. You can read thousands of these pages on other forums and other immigration lawyers websites.There are so many laws that were passed, increasing border security, limiting the number of immigrants and so on. I am just explaining the risks involve and their options.

I am not SCARING PEOPLE. I am just explaining what is RIGHT for the benefit of all based on immigration law. LEGAL JARGON? Well the most reliable source to PROVE a point is to PROVIDE a RELIABLE SOURCE. In this topic, the U.S. Code of Federal Regualtions and the Immigration and Nationality Act comes into the spotlight.

I always stand for what I believe in, if one would die for the benefit of millions so be it. The Philippines has a bad reputation because most of the people who have been a given a tourist visa never came back. Legal or not is not the question anymore. Many Filipinos are hurt because of this practice.

Yes we are all adults. So what's your point in saying that I am scaring people away? These are not kids who listen to your bedtime stories. This is the real world. If they read my posts and considers it fine, if they don't it doesn't matter otherwise i would have been banned here.

I am not a lawyer. I am not offering my services.

You say "Helpful data means reliable data--what worked for you, or a friend" What's your point here? I am providing FACTS, LAWS and everything. What do you provide?

A friend who want to commit suicide because she was not able to fly to the U.S.? This is not "MAALALA MO KAYA" There are far more many...millions of Filipinos who are suffering...who are living in SUB-HUMAN CONDITIONS.

In using a tourist visa, YOU JUST WANT TO TAKE THE SHORTCUT. If you do not want the term "shortcut" you do not want to wait for consular processing. You do not want it to do the safe way, you don't want to FALL IN LINE for your greencard. What could be the reason in waiting for 2 years? Are you telling me that you would not be able to survive in that period? And take the risk of being "out of status", being deported, or jailed?

THE SOUR GRAPE...

About your friend... I also have a friend who DIED. You know why? She was not given a tourist visa she badly needed for her treatment in the U.S. because too many Filipinos have already abused these visas. But this is not my reason for writing that I am against it. IT HAS TO SERVE ITS PURPOSE!

As far as I know, you can always apply for a tourist visa especially if your records with the U.S. Embassy are good.

It is true that we all want to earn a decent living, to provide a good future for our family and loved ones. It is so disappointing to live here. Enjoy the ride!

still_dale

lawrence01 · Jan 6, 2006

I think everyone have already said their piece. Let's leave it at that.

We should always remember that eveything being said here are opinions, suggestions and knowned facts (current or not) and I'm glad everyone respect each other's differing opinions.

Decisions made by someone base on all these information must accept the consequences and/or rewards of his or her own decision.

Hope no feelings were hurt from the posts here. Lighten up guys.

pinoy_guy · Jan 6, 2006

even if you're so displeased with mine as evidenced by your spirited and point-by-point denunciation of my views (i'd like to think that some were not meant to ridicule).

no, i am too old to gain satisfaction by ridicule. and i have a strong fear of god to go around ridiculing others.

i am not displeased with your opinion. you have the right to your own opinion.

i do think your posts had some inaccuracies, so i made my point on each item.

i am not happy with the effect such misleading posts have on people.

read about my depressed friend above and you'll get an idea where i'm coming from.

1. the complications of the aos route have been discussed all over this forum. in fact, i think suzanne mentioned some in her answer to jhas's query in the introductions thread.

yes, i have come across them, ad nauseum. the same words, over and over, but little hard data on who actually got deported and blacklisted.

sometimes "a friend of a friend of a friend."

the sources of these posts are limited to a few.

repetition does not make something true.

i got the impression from suzanne's posts that she was not specifically against going the adjustment of status route, she just said to know all the facts and to know what to do before going that way.

2. for me, i try to take affirmative action as much as i can because i believe in the saying that the "sins of the indifferent are far worse than those of the wicked."

i don't understand how scaring people is "affirmative action!"

what do such posts prevent anyway?

oh. the "affirmative action" has a family mad at you. was that what you wanted?

3. yes, i personally think some pinoy nurses are not deserving of a gc. in fact, some shouldn't have been nurses in the first place. have i the right to judge who is deserving, hardworking, or sincere in their chosen profession? no. never. it is their co-workers and patients who'd eventually be the judge of that.

you know, i don't think we should be judging people like this.

"live and let live."

4. no, i am not a nurse. that's my wife's sacred calling. my service-orientation is of a different kind.

ok. i'm glad that is cleared up.

i was wondering why you were referring to the other people as nurses.

5. i understand that himdale is neither a laywer nor a nurse. i believe that he is just a person like you, who means well, and tries to share what he knows to aid others, to the best of his abilities.

for the record, i am a registered nurse.

from his all caps posts and exclamation points (!!!) and liberal use of legal terms, people assumed that he's a lawyer.

if he's not a lawyer nor a nurse, then what is he doing in a nurses's forum? he's also in another nurses's forum giving the same advice.

6. yes. we have a valid 10-year, multiple tourist visa. in fact, we were in the bay area fall of 2004 for close to 4 weeks. we had so much fun and achieved moments of epiphany there, that this visit to the us cemented our decision to finally submit ourselves to this process.

ok.

i have a friend from new york, also has a tourist visa but decided to go via consular processing because his wife couldn't bear being separated from him for at least 8 months.

you're not alone in your choice.

my follow-up question is: is your choice to go via consular processing, even if you have a tourist visa, driven by "fairness" and the desire to do what is "right?" is your decision not to go adjustment of status route driven by fear of being caught, or the wishes of your family, or some business/personal matters you haven't cleared up yet? are you or your wife currently under a contract here and cannot leave?

a nurse friend in a government hospital is also going consular processing because she had special training in the us, and she had to sign that she can't resign for the next 2 years.

there are a lot of reasons not to go the adjustment of status route, but "fairness" does not rank high on the list.

they are not meant to mislead others.

ok. but the posts have misled others.

maybe just stating your opinion without the embellishments would be better.

it is my fervent hope that differing opinions within this forum aid would-be applicants in asking their immigration lawyers or consultants relevant questions before embarking on anything.

this is the point.

few, if any, have access to us immigration lawyers here. the word around is that a consultation is us$200 per hour!

so what people do is to search in google and come across this forum. and accept your opinions because they were not labelled as such, are all over the place, and are not rebutted.

people make decisions affecting their families's lives based on the posts here.

anyway, i don't have an iota of an inclination to believe that my opinion would sway tourist visa holders (who are planning to go by way of theaos route) to decide otherwise.

oh, but your posts have affected my friend and her daughter. at the very least.

a lot more people read these posts without registering.

a lot of people accept your opinions as truth because they don't have any other source of information.

one's character, financial motivations, and the expert advise of their immigration lawyer would eventually lead them to their final decision.

i don't even know how to answer this one.

i have to say that maslow is the driving force now. survival. have you seen the electricity bill lately?

survival first and foremost. i think this is the driving force.

by the way, i had a blast with your comment on my "true-blue nurse" bit. your attempt at sarcasm was so funny! :chuckle (by the way, i agree that us law prohibits discrimination. never stopped some people, though).

you know, if you read through your words again, you will find them funny. i just pointed it out. :wink2:

-----

in summary, i am a registered nurse, i am just pointing out some unintended consequences of the posts here, and i am requesting that people be careful when posting.

we have to be responsible for our posts.

if anybody feels he has to warn others about an issue, do so, but do it objectively and support it with facts.

then stop. don't force the issue.

let the reader decide.

i wish you all success in your endeavors.

peace.