My frustration with inconsiderate classmates

AOx1 · Jun 16, 2009

As an instructor, I set the guidelines and expectations for the class. The majority of my students are hard working and want to learn. All of them are paying to be provided with guidance and for my experience and knowledge. I won't allow that type of behavior in the classroom. I warn on the first day of class of my expectations and the reasons for them. After that, you encounter the consequences of your actions. Late to my class? You miss the quiz points and must stand outside until the next break. Talking during class? (I'm not talking about a brief question like "What page number was just said?" but chatting)- I assume you would rather be elsewhere, and that can be accomodated. Cell phone ringing during class? I will send you out where you can text, facebook, or chat to your heart's content. The exception is made only for students who notify me in advance that they may receive an emergency phone call, and they are to keep their phone on silent and excuse themselves immediately if they receive a call.

Being in the classroom is a privilege, not a right. Sometimes people forget this. With estimates at around 42% of qualified nursing school applicants being turned away for lack of seats and faculty, if you don't want to be here, I can easily find someone who does. Learning is a partnership. I will not go to all the effort, spend hours each week preparing and keeping information current only to tolerate that rare student who surfs the net during class, chats, talks on a phone, and is late, only to be shocked when he or she doesn't do well in the class. Of course, this is the type of student who often views it as the "instructor's fault" that they didn't learn. I won't allow this type of person to disrupt the huge majority of hard workers.

It's funny, if you were rude and disruptive at a movie theater, you would be removed. Yes, you paid admission, but so did the other people. Same in the classroom. Your tuition allows you to show up, participate, and learn. It doesn't allow you to annoy and disrupt others and to compromise their ability to learn. I also make it quite clear that if you expect to be treated with respect by me in clinical when you make a mistake or know less than I do (and this will happen), then you will treat others in your class with the same respect if you feel you know more than they do.

CrufflerJJ, BSN, RN, EMT-P · Jun 16, 2009

While doing my prereq courses, I was amazed at the people who would consistently come strolling into class 15+ minutes late. The A&P prof would do extra credit quizzes in the first 5 minutes of class. If you were late, no extra credit points for you (poor baby!).

BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN · Jun 16, 2009

Being in the classroom is a privilege, not a right. Sometimes people forget this. With estimates at around 42% of qualified nursing school applicants being turned away for lack of seats and faculty, if you don't want to be here, I can easily find someone who does. Learning is a partnership. I will not go to all the effort, spend hours each week preparing and keeping information current only to tolerate that rare student who surfs the net during class, chats, talks on a phone, and is late, only to be shocked when he or she doesn't do well in the class. Of course, this is the type of student who often views it as the "instructor's fault" that they didn't learn. I won't allow this type of person to disrupt the huge majority of hard workers.

:yeah: :yeah: Requesting permission to paraphrase your words in the classroom next semesrer.

AOx1 · Jun 16, 2009

Absolutely, lol. I think of it like raising children in some ways- I care to much about them to let them waste opportunities. I don't mean this in a paternalistic manner, only that some students need guidance on professional behaviors. Of course, I must admit that some educators do also! I went to professional conference that I paid dearly for, only to have a fellow educator blab loudly on his cell phone. Having several hundred other educators turn and give him "the look" simultaneously was all it took for him to slink out of the room. I was in total shock.

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Jun 16, 2009

your frustration is misplaced. you should not only be angry with your inconsiderate classmates but the instructor as well for giving instructions and then not enforcing them. that is what happens when directions are not properly supervised. it is one thing to give rules and quite another to make sure they are followed.

talk to the instructor and tell him what is going on (maybe he isn't aware of it), how much the disturbance bothers you and ask that they address it.

Two Sheds · Jun 17, 2009

Well, I agree that the instructors are the final say in what he/she allows to happen in class. The problem is, before I officially entered the nursing program (I was getting all my pre-reqs out of the way while waiting to enter), I heard all kinds of advice from nursing students: some on this forum, and some in real life (at my school).

One thing everyone seems to be in agreement on is to not "make a name" for yourself, or otherwise call undue attention to yourself, because that gives the instructor ammunition to make your life a living hell. The advice I've been given has been to just do your thing, and "fly under the radar," to avoid being made "an example of" if the instructor is particularly sadistic.

I have a 4.0 GPA, and I'd like to keep it for as long as I possibly can. I don't need to inadvertantly point out to an instructor that he or she is "not doing his/her job" and then have them breathing down my neck for the rest of the semester, know what I mean? It's really a sticky situation. I guess I could say something to the students themselves, but I figure: why waste the effort, because they'll most likely wash out anyway.

What do y'all think?

2BSure · Jun 17, 2009

I really hate this, too. We have groups of (largely international) students who ask ridiculous questions that are completely useless/irrelevant or should be looked up in an oxford dictionary. For example, we spent half of a three hour lab trying to explain the meaning of the word "intervention" (it was a key word in our care plan assignment). LOOK IT UP IN YOUR TRANSLATION BOOKS THAT YOU CARRY IN YOUR POCKETS or similar...

Wow! Feeling superior much? You may wish to learn some tolerance. I wonder what prevented you from explaining the term to your "international" friends?

fiveofpeep · Jun 17, 2009

The other thing that really bothers me is the endless tirade of chatter (loud chatter) from certain groups of international students (of which there are many at my uni) in their languages during class. This is in no way supposed to be racist but if you already have trouble learning because your english is poor, why on earth don't you bother to listen? Or show up for class on time? Or ask questions? Or speak english throughout the class being conducted in english. BECAUSE WE ARE SICK OF TRYING TO TEACH YOU AT THE BEDSIDE! Seriously, I had one student who was supposed to count a RR during a simulation and attempted to (failed) count a pulse. I practically fell over.

hah that reminds me...first semester these girls would speak in their native language during exams. I was like "just because we cant understand you does not mean we dont hear you" hah

BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN · Jun 17, 2009

Well, I agree that the instructors are the final say in what he/she allows to happen in class. The problem is, before I officially entered the nursing program (I was getting all my pre-reqs out of the way while waiting to enter), I heard all kinds of advice from nursing students: some on this forum, and some in real life (at my school).
One thing everyone seems to be in agreement on is to not "make a name" for yourself, or otherwise call undue attention to yourself, because that gives the instructor ammunition to make your life a living hell. The advice I've been given has been to just do your thing, and "fly under the radar," to avoid being made "an example of" if the instructor is particularly sadistic.
I have a 4.0 GPA, and I'd like to keep it for as long as I possibly can. I don't need to inadvertantly point out to an instructor that he or she is "not doing his/her job" and then have them breathing down my neck for the rest of the semester, know what I mean? It's really a sticky situation. I guess I could say something to the students themselves, but I figure: why waste the effort, because they'll most likely wash out anyway.
What do y'all think?

As an instructor, I totally see your point. I, personally, would not look at it as "making a name" for yourself, but I guess my nose would be a little out of joint if you came to me and told me "I don't know how to handle my class". My theory is (and I KNOW it is not a popular one here) that this is college, not 2nd grade. It is not my job to consistantly call out behavior problems (Jane, turn your phone off, Tommy stop talking to Jimmy, etc). I make a disclaimer at the beginning of the semester with my expectations, and if needed I gently remind them (as a group) of what is expected.

We had some issues this semester (not when I was teaching) and a couple of the mature students (yet diplomatic, not 'trouble makers') spoke to the class as a group and basically told them to grow up. I know sometimes the message is more effective when it is not coming from the teacher (kind of like my daughter who told me that the school nurse told them how important it is to wash your hands... telling mommy, the nurse?!?). I don't know if you (or any of your peers) would be comfortable in that role, but it's just a suggestion.

Torchwood · Jun 17, 2009

I was 35 when I went to nursing school. My mid-life crisis was to help people. The age of what I call "bad students" ran the gauntlet. Older people who felt to important to be bothered with rules. Younger people who didn't seem to care. I tried to ignore the bad, and work with the good.

We had 60ish people, and 20 finished. To my personal shame, I was glad to see most of the 40 go.

AOx1 · Jun 17, 2009

To be honest, it is both the responsibility of the instructor and of the students to control the atmosphere of the classroom. I set the rules and expectations upfront, and enforce them. However, if it is a large classroom, my eyes and ears can't be everywhere at one time. If someone is disrupting you, calmly and professionally ask them to STOP. If someone is talking to you, for example, just say "Let's talk later, I want to hear the lecturer now." If they are sitting away from you and speaking to them would also be distracting, speak to them after class. Of course, some students will get defensive about this, but they need to mature and be respectful of others, and sadly, some never had this expectation in their home life.

You will soon be a member of a profession in which we are accountable not only to patients, but to each other. If another nurse is doing something dangerous, I would talk to him or her in a calm and courteous manner. If the issue still is not resolved, it is time to pursue the issue further. Same in this situation. If it is something you can handle quickly with a "Please be quiet, I can't hear" then do so. If not, you may need to speak to your instructor. I would present it as a question- ex "During class, there has been a lot of talking. I've requested that those doing so please stop, but this has not taken care of this issue. I'm finding it difficult to learn. What other suggestions do you have for me?" This may lead to the instructor addressing the class, or providing other input. If anyone is offended by a simple question like this, they have other issues.

It's a partnership. I agree to do my best to maintain an environment conducive to learning, but students also have a responsibility to do so, as mature adults and future professionals. Another key is also to have support of administration (as faculty). The key to my class being rarely disrupted is that when I remove a student for such behavior, administration backs me up 100% and the student is counseled about the behavior before returning to class. I have never had a repeated discipline problem with any student.

2BSure · Jun 17, 2009

To be honest, it is both the responsibility of the instructor and of the students to control the atmosphere of the classroom. I set the rules and expectations upfront, and enforce them. However, if it is a large classroom, my eyes and ears can't be everywhere at one time. If someone is disrupting you, calmly and professionally ask them to STOP. If someone is talking to you, for example, just say "Let's talk later, I want to hear the lecturer now." If they are sitting away from you and speaking to them would also be distracting, speak to them after class. Of course, some students will get defensive about this, but they need to mature and be respectful of others, and sadly, some never had this expectation in their home life.
You will soon be a member of a profession in which we are accountable not only to patients, but to each other. If another nurse is doing something dangerous, I would talk to him or her in a calm and courteous manner. If the issue still is not resolved, it is time to pursue the issue further. Same in this situation. If it is something you can handle quickly with a "Please be quiet, I can't hear" then do so. If not, you may need to speak to your instructor. I would present it as a question- ex "During class, there has been a lot of talking. I've requested that those doing so please stop, but this has not taken care of this issue. I'm finding it difficult to learn. What other suggestions do you have for me?" This may lead to the instructor addressing the class, or providing other input. If anyone is offended by a simple question like this, they have other issues.
It's a partnership. I agree to do my best to maintain an environment conducive to learning, but students also have a responsibility to do so, as mature adults and future professionals. Another key is also to have support of administration (as faculty). The key to my class being rarely disrupted is that when I remove a student for such behavior, administration backs me up 100% and the student is counseled about the behavior before returning to class. I have never had a repeated discipline problem with any student.

Exactly right! Both students and instructors are responsible.

How about this for funny --

I was teaching and this guy's cell phone rang. Not only did he answer it but started having a conversation -- he clearly had no intention of leaving the room for this. He pushed his chair back onto its back legs to relax and said into the phone "s'OK I'm just in a class". I told him to get out of the class, which he did grudgingly. There was an email of complaint about me before I got in the next day.

By the way, he was well north of 40 yrs old.