ethics lecture rant (sensitive topic)

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Feb 10, 2005

Would you want to work on an ICU with someone who does (tolerate, that is) ?

In a word, yes.

Your posts are unnecessarily rude.

I'd so much rather work with someone who is able to understand the concept of teamwork rather than someone who gets off on conjugating verbs.

RedSox33RN · Feb 10, 2005

In a word, yes.
Your posts are unnecessarily rude.
I'd so much rather work with someone who is able to understand the concept of teamwork rather than someone who gets off on conjugating verbs.

:chuckle

NurseFirst · Feb 10, 2005

I believe that there are far too many people on this earth. I agree with the organization Zero Population Growth. I have chosen to be child-free.
I have never refused to care for a woman in labor. I had to do L&D in clinicals, but would never work in L&D because of my beliefs.
I have provided mt very best, respectful care to teens in labor, although I find their actions, their choices, and the consequesces of such, dispicable.

ZPG doesn't mean having children universally is bad; it means having too many children is bad. I don't understand why you would object to L&D. If you objected to people having children, period, then L&D, to me, would be the same as being pro-life and taking care of someone who suffered the consequences of abortion.

Personally, I think it would be better to promote non-consumerist, minimalist lifestyles than promoting ZPG. It isn't that ALL people take up too many resources; it's just the resources taken up by the individual people. There has been a correlation between degree of education and fewer births--so we just need to educate the world and that should take care of population growth :)

NurseFirst

chicago bsn 2005 · Feb 10, 2005

As much as it breaks my heart, It's not my job to judge someone as to why they wanted to end their life or the life of their unborn child. As painful as it is to think about - perhaps they thought that was their only way out or the only option they had. We all know that anyone who is so depressed, stressed out, etc. to go to those extremes is in desperate need of help and that is where we come in - we are here to help them through this and perhaps make a difference in their lives.

i just wanted to comment: this too is my philosophy, pertaining to any patient, not just abortion patients...although i've never participated in such a thing and don't plan on it. i plan on going somewhere else with my career.

i am very new to the site and how fun! to get angry and say what you really think on line, when you could never get away with it in professional situations. wonderful place to at the very least vent. a very valuable source of information/opinions. i'm thankful i found the site.

targa · Feb 10, 2005

I am sorry but these wordy diatribes simply carry no weight here. Contempt is far more fatal to therapeutic communication than poor grammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmer any day. Why don't you actually get your license and experience an ICU before pontificating.

Perhaps you're correct, Bluesky. After all, my knowledge to date regarding ICUs comes from my experience of suing a hospital and its ICU nurses over a botched DNR order, confusion over which led to the death of my clients' family member... and all because one nurse had a problem with communication. Granted, that case involved a little more than poor grammar, but I think you get my drift. Wow, that was a great $ettlement.

You missed my point (which contained not a whiff of contempt, and certainly cannot be called a diatribe)... but I won't belabor the issue. I simply commented on something that I have observed... poor writing skills. Nurses ought to know how to write, concisely and precisely, without leading a reader to believe that the writer is foolish. But I guess I'm asking too much.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 10, 2005

If one cannot put aside her/his personal convictions and do the job required (i.e., care for the patient without regard to the nature and/or origin of the underlying condition), then one needs to find another line of work. It's that simple.

To the end of that you might add "in my opinion". I disagree with you. I care for a patient without regard to the nature and/or origin of the underlying condition, that's true. But I also can not put asside my personal convictions. Maybe we have a differing definition of personal conviction. But to me I don't take my convictions so lightly as to toss them aside. That said, I can't think of one time my personal convictions stopped me from caring for a patient. Probably , because I don't work in a unit where they are tested. (I work in a city trauma med-surg unit, caring sometimes for murderers, drug drivers, and drug dealers).

I have however, seen personal convictions stop a nurse from caring for a particular patient on a couple of occasions. As I've indicated in earlier posts, I support that idea.

All of the above, of course, is a personal opinion.

By the way, the word is "despicable". Am I the only one bothered by the atrocious spelling and grammar used by many on this forum? The other day, someone used the phrase, "I didn't know nothing". No one called attention to it.
Many of us will be charting one day; your words are going to be read by others. Some here need a course in remedial english... what the heck is going on in high schools these days?!?

Guilty as charged. I'm notrious for typos and misspellings in my posts. I type very fast and don't proofread.

My current nursing instructor (I'm in an RN to BSN program) allows for spellings and typos in our chat sessions. In our papers she is very strict on proper English and spelling. I've made A's on all my papers.

Since this bb is neither an English nor a nursing class, I'm not going to worry about what others think. I realize I'm representing nurses to the world, and I hope there are some people that realize it's only a bulletin board and I'm human. I also realize there are more anal people among us and I make them cringe to the bones with my spelling and English. But as my grades, so far indicate, I'm doing fine and don't need an remedial English thank you.

I do however, do not mind when someone points out if I've misspelled a word, but I'm not going to feel belittled by it.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 10, 2005

I simply commented on something that I have observed... poor writing skills. Nurses ought to know how to write, concisely and precisely, without leading a reader to believe that the writer is foolish. But I guess I'm asking too much.

Points well taken.

When it counts, I am able to do all those things. But for me and me alone, I'd like to say that yes, you are indeed asking to much as it pertains to the bb. Out in real life, in charting, in paper writing, in communication with others, no you're not asking too much. Try not to judge me okay. :rotfl:

targa · Feb 10, 2005

Your points are also well-taken, 3rdShiftGuy. It wasn't my point to judge anyone. I just get slightly annoyed when ridiculed, and tend to respond with perhaps too much gusto.

When I attended college, several of my profs would use a spelling or grammatical error as occasion to downgrade a paper an entire letter grade. This was before the advent of word processors and spell-checks. I became used to "perfection" in writing. Later, in my law practice, I would cringe when I saw errors committed by opposing counsel, who supposedly knew how to write well.

My observation about posters on this BB were more in the way of confirming what I've read in the papers: that young students today are not being taught how to write. I realize this is a BB... but some of the things I've read here give me real pause... and as you agree with me on the nurse's need for superlative on-the-job writing skills, I just had to comment. I didn't realize that this BB would be so "politically correct", i.e., everyone seems so afraid that they'll "offend" someone. My skin is thick, however, and I've been called worse things than "rude".

Best regards to you...

bluesky, BSN, RN · Feb 10, 2005

Perhaps you're correct, Bluesky. After all, my knowledge to date regarding ICUs comes from my experience of suing a hospital and its ICU nurses over a botched DNR order, confusion over which led to the death of my clients' family member... and all because one nurse had a problem with communication. Granted, that case involved a little more than poor grammar, but I think you get my drift. Wow, that was a great $ettlement.
You missed my point (which contained not a whiff of contempt, and certainly cannot be called a diatribe)... but I won't belabor the issue. I simply commented on something that I have observed... poor writing skills. Nurses ought to know how to write, concisely and precisely, without leading a reader to believe that the writer is foolish. But I guess I'm asking too much.

I didn't miss your point. I merely chose to convey that no one is going to consider your point if it is delivered in such a judgmental, intolerant fashion.

I understand that it was not your intention to sound contemptuous or rude. However, you made several disparaging remarks which most of the readers here interpreted as such.

So, specifically, was the DNR botched due to poor spelling or grammar? If grammar or spelling was not directly at the root of the communication error then your argument is non-sequitur, I believe.

Your point is, roughly, "poor grammar and spelling (specific) contribute to poor communication (general)... here is an example of how poor communication led to a bad patient outcome (DNR story) therefore poor grammar and spelling can lead to poor patient outcomes".

I was actually thinking about going into human rights law myself but if this is the type of discourse I can expect maybe second thoughts are in order! :stone

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 10, 2005

My skin is thick, however, and I've been called worse things than "rude".
Best regards to you...

Oh yes, ya gotta have thick skin to hang around this bunch that's for sure. :rotfl:

I think you were merely stating how you feel, what your opinion is, and you weren't rude about it. (I have thick skins as well and my interpretation of rudeness obviously isn't what others is.) I agree our educational system lets us down in this area. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

Anyway, I hope I don't make you cringe to much with my posts. I know I do a lot of people, because you're not the first person to have ever made the observations you have.

Best regards to you too! Woot!

allnurses Guide · Feb 10, 2005

Tweety - ah, there you go being reasonable again. :)

I think there is a bit of a difference (what is the name of this thread again?) . . . between typos and some of the grammar mistakes I've noticed.

I do work with some staff who use double negatives and say "orientate", which I know is a word and is used by folks in other countries, but sounds odd here.

Back to the topic though - I think Tweety's points are well-taken. Where I work, we work as a team and if someone has just had enough of one particular patient, we trade off. If someone was raped and we are taking care of a rapist and that person requests not to have that patient, we accomodate them. Just seems reasonable to me.

steph

bluesky, BSN, RN · Feb 10, 2005

Oh yes, ya gotta have thick skin to hang around this bunch that's for sure. :rotfl:
I think you were merely stating how you feel, what your opinion is, and you weren't rude about it. (I have thick skins as well and my interpretation of rudeness obviously isn't what others is.) I agree our educational system lets us down in this area. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
Anyway, I hope I don't make you cringe to much with my posts. I know I do a lot of people, because you're not the first person to have ever made the observations you have.
Best regards to you too! Woot!

Next time you make a joke I'll refer to "your lame attempt at humor" and that won't be rude at all then, eh?