ADN vs BSN My daughter and I having a heated Discussion!

[NOIRLINCOLN]

My daughter has taken, with the exception of A&P I&2, her prereqs. She is taking both this summer. She will be eligible to enter the ADN program this fall. I am so excited about her getting her uniform, white shoes, stethescope, nursing care plan sheets, and clinically rotating this fall! She is contemplating going to a BSN program instead. The BSN program at the university is $455.00 per credit hr as opposed to $81.00 at the Jr college. Obviously money is an issue for us, and I do not want her to go into debt. I told her that it is best to take her NCLEX asap and not to put unnecessary time and info between that time. I also feel that she will get more nursing experience by doing it what I call the 2+1 way, which is the bridge program rather than the 3+0 way, not to mention that the hospital will probably pay for the bridged year. I do not like (4) yr colleges b/c I have never had as great an exp. at any of them as at the community colleges. I have gone to (4) diff (4) yr colleges, and (2) diff community colleges. I am currently enrolled in an ADN community college program and I love my instructors! She will be going to a different community college in a different state. I am very familiar with the community college that she will, God willin', go to this fall, b/c I graduated from there with an AS degree and she has taken all her prereqs except Micro there. We disagree every night about this decision b/c I do not feel that more general education classes will make her a better nurse, and it will cost her a year of work. She plans to meet with the (4) colleges and find out if she can enter with sophomore status. I have looked at some of the (4) yr curriculums and they are absurd. They require pathophysiology (4) cr, pharmacology (3) cr, foundations (5) cr, nutrition (3) cr, and sociology (3) cr this is a ttl of (18) cr which is inhumane, as opposed to (8) cr at the Jr college. I really feel that (18) cr is a recipe for failure. She tells me that she wants to be challenged, live on campus, she is convinced that she can have a social life while going to nursing school, and has long range plans to go to med school. I tell her lets make small successes, and then progress to bigger ones.

Edited by Nurse Ratched: exciting update to original poster's story on post #75! Congrats to daughter! :) Adding this because I don't want folks new to the thread to miss it.

https://allnurses.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1034637&postcount=75

[actioncat]

We went to the (4) yr college today and spoke with the marketing person. I was not impressed. The marketing person told my daughter that inspite of the fact that she has most all of the freshman classes completed they can not offer her sophomore status. My daughter asked the marketing person what would she be doing with her time since she has already completed most all of the freshman coursework, and she was advised to take an EMT program or minor in something while she waits to get into the sophomore year. NOT!! I DON'T THINK SO!!! We peeped our heads into some classrooms, but did not really get to see much. We then went to the (2) yr college. We picked up information, and the (2) yr application came in the mail :balloons: . We went to the bookstore and looked at nursing, anatomy, and lifespan books. Both of these schools share the same clinical sites. My daughter did not really seem impressed with either school. On Wed we will go talk to the counselor at the (2) yr college. The counselor has graduate degrees from the (4) yr college that my daughter is considering even though she works at the (2) yr college, so she will be able to offer a more balanced view. My daughter did say that she is pursuing scholarships, but if the scholarships are not adequate then there is no way she is going to go into debt for her RN.

Well, if there are competitive admissions, many times students have to wait to enter the program.

But.. I have to ask: What type of university has a "marketing person" for admissions. I associate this more with profit making schools.

[NOIRLINCOLN]

that seems a little strange. if she has nothing left to do before soph. year, how can they hold her back from taking the next level courses? so she would have to be a freshman again (or is she only in hs now?) now your talking about extra $$ (or loans) to buy time, right?

how does she feel about this? would you consider another 4yr school? is her heart set on this particular school for some reason? or is it the 'going away' thing that she really wants?

and do you feel she can truly appreciate the consequences of the student loans? i know at 18, i didn't. i, like most, fell into that credit card trap. you have loans. right? does she grasp the timeframe, and the amount, and the interest??? i'm not in your situation, but if she's a smart girl, and you feel she can appreciate the consequences, maybe you should consider letting her make the choice herself. of course, there's the loan issue. if you feel she may end up defaulting (and then if falls on you), then that's a problem.

this is obviously a tough decision for both of you to make. you obviously care about her, and want the best for her. boy, do i appreciate pre-k even more now :chuckle

yes she is in high school right now. her hs grad date is 9 jun. she starts ap 1 16 may, and her ap 2 will overlap and begin 27 jun. there are (2) classes a nursing orientation class and a chem class that she will need to be ready for soph yr at the major (4) yr university. she will however have exceeded the entrance requirement for (2) yr program. the (2) yr program studies ap 1&2 during the first yr of nursing school. i like to keep the ap classes seperate from the nursing classes. i want her to focus on assessments, care plans, and the foundations of nursing.

she is not dying to leave the state. she has many friends from high school who are staying in state as well. she looks at other (4) yr schools, but i believe that she has narrowed it down to these (2) schools. i would love for her to go to my nursing school in tx, but she would have to finish college chem before this summer 2005, and this would put her out of sync.

she is "mommy's baby" and i will be overjoyed to see her succeed! i remember reading in foundations that self-esteem is built and preserved by small successes. i will be just as adament about her continuing her education beyond her adn. she is very intelligent and has much to offer.

yes pre-k is wonderful time. it is such a great bonding time. when i was doing my bs her pre-k was at my college. when the pre-k would end i used to go get her and bring her to my statistics class. i had a educational coloring book that i got from one of the teacher's supply stores. she would complete a certain amount of pages during the class, and then i would have follow-up discussion sessions as we walked along to catch our bus to go home. i used to have her read menus, advertisements on the bus, any written material that we could spy. the bus ads were fantastic b/c she began to associate the expensive logos with the words and this helped her to develop her associative memory.

[nursee1]

Hi,

This is my first time posting and I hope I am of some help.

I too am a mother with a head strong daughter. She is now at 33 telling me she would not give anything for the experiences she has had except the ones where she got in all this debt before she made one penny.

My daughter went to a 4 year college and received a degree in Biology education and began to teach when she realized that she wanted to go to dental school as we discussed prior to her changing her major for the 4 time. She then went to the community college for dental hygiene just to make sure she even liked being in someones mouth. Fortunately she loved it. She taught school for 3 years as a security blanket and did her hygiene at the summer breaks. She loved it and made almost as much money as she did during the year teaching. She is now a full time hygienist and loving it. Her salary has doubled but the only draw back is the house payment size loan payments she is paying for her bachelors degree.

Have your daughter do the math before she gets into the financial horrors of repaying student loans.

[nursee1]

undefined

Hi,

This is my first time posting and I hope I am of some help. First piece of advise is to keep talking.

I too am a mother with a head strong daughter. She is now at 33 and she keeps telling me she would not give anything for the experiences she has had except the ones where she got in all this debt before she made one penny.

My daughter went to a 4 year college and received a degree in Biology education. She began to teach when she realized that she wanted to go to dental school as we discussed prior to her changing her major for the 4th time. She then went to the community college for dental hygiene just to make sure she would even liked being in someones mouth. Fortunately she loved it. She taught school for 3 years as a security blanket and did her hygiene at the summer breaks. She loved it and made almost as much money as she did during the year teaching. She is now a full time hygienist and loving it. Her salary has doubled but the only draw back is the house payment size loan payments she is making for her bachelors degree.

Have your daughter do the math before she gets into the financial horrors of repaying student loans. Nursse1

[loriangel14, RN]

Yes you are right I did state that maturity is a benefit for being a nursing student. Point taken.No offense meant Mom. But also I would say that if i had known how difficult it would be after kids and a divorce I would have done this before. Having to juggle taking care of kids and worry about paying a mortgage on top of school is not easy. It doesn't really matter what path one takes to become a nurse but mostly that the path is of ones own choosing not of ones mothers choosing. It sounds like you have raised an intelligent young lady that knows what she wants. Give her your support and she can accomplish anything she wants. Best of luck with this dilemma.

[chris_at_lucas_RN, RN]

Most of the opinions you state in your post seem to be yours and not your daughters. Has it ever occurred to you that this is her life and not yours? As far as I know going into debt to get your RN is quite common and if she is making decent money when she gets out she will be able to pay it off. Now is the time to do it when she is young and has no dependents. You don't mention how old your daughter is but you come accross as very controlling and unwilling to let your daughter make her own decisions. I think you should stop trying to run your daughters life.

Gee, this seems to be rather unfairly attacking the OP, dontcha think?

No parent is obligated to pay for a child's education. If they want to, they can. If they want to put conditions on it, they can.

It doesn't make them bad parents. If the child doesn't like it, the child can do something different.

She sounds like a wonderful Mom--probably a lot nicer than other perfectly good Moms might be.

When kids learn a) to carry their own weight and b) to be grateful for what parents can and are willing to do for them, they have matured.

I feel your post was unfair and critical. Blaming mothers is not only not in vogue, it is generally unfounded except in the most extreme cases of neglect or abuse. (This isn't that.)

[caligirl]

I guess my question is, why would you not want your daughter to get the whole college experience? And more importantly, why would discourage her from getting her bachelors?? I want my kids to aim for the highest available. I want them to go further than me which means if I get a masters I want them to get a Phd if they so desire. Even if it costs ME money (which it will and does since I have college funds for them) I guess i just want my kids to have it better than I have or had. Neither my hubby nor I had the whole dorm thing in college and we definitely want our kids to have that experience if they want it. Why not? You are only young once.. even if that means I will have to miss my kids terribly when they go out of state I will encourage them to do what they want.

[longroadahead]

18 credits total isn't all that bad. Last term (though I would never want to do this again) I took 27 credits: Microbiology, Calculus, English, Writing, Psychology, Statistics, and Chemistry. I only worked 16 hours a week (as a CNA at a nursing home - I worked one double per week) and pulled A's in all of them but Statistics (I'm sure if I had taken that course with none others I still wouldn't have managed a A because the instructor was HORRID).

I worked my toosh off, but it is doable.

If she wants to go the BSN route first, then let her take out the loans - as you said she is an adult. I'm 19 and I would very much prefer just doing the BSN straight away and getting done with it. Then again, I'm also getting loans to pay for my education. Just my two cents :)

[NOIRLINCOLN]

I guess my question is, why would you not want your daughter to get the whole college experience? And more importantly, why would discourage her from getting her bachelors?? I want my kids to aim for the highest available. I want them to go further than me which means if I get a masters I want them to get a Phd if they so desire. Even if it costs ME money (which it will and does since I have college funds for them) I guess i just want my kids to have it better than I have or had. Neither my hubby nor I had the whole dorm thing in college and we definitely want our kids to have that experience if they want it. Why not? You are only young once.. even if that means I will have to miss my kids terribly when they go out of state I will encourage them to do what they want.

I want my daughter to drive a BMW to class but she is not going to. I am not discouraging her from getting her BSN. I have a BS degree. I think theory is great when one can afford to sit in the chair and listen w/o having to worry about Maslow's first rung. You mentioned that you have a resource that I don't have, a husband. I do not have that support system. We are just a couple of broke folks in America tryin' to make it. I left a lot of people behind on my dead end travel agent job of most recent who were in my similar socioeconomic group and they are not even aspiring to go to college. I am going to school on a very slight 401k fund. I have one for me, and one for my daughter. I know that the other 401k fund will completely pay for her (2) yr ADN degree and transportation. That same 401k fund will not scratch a dent in the (4) yr university's 1st semester tuition, let alone, transportation.

[NOIRLINCOLN]

18 credits total isn't all that bad. Last term (though I would never want to do this again) I took 27 credits: Microbiology, Calculus, English, Writing, Psychology, Statistics, and Chemistry. I only worked 16 hours a week (as a CNA at a nursing home - I worked one double per week) and pulled A's in all of them but Statistics (I'm sure if I had taken that course with none others I still wouldn't have managed a A because the instructor was HORRID).

I worked my toosh off, but it is doable.

If she wants to go the BSN route first, then let her take out the loans - as you said she is an adult. I'm 19 and I would very much prefer just doing the BSN straight away and getting done with it. Then again, I'm also getting loans to pay for my education. Just my two cents :)

My mother did the 1st yr of nursing school while she worked full-time at night. She was in her late 40's. She was of course a very driven student. She made (A's and B's). She had pre-existing cardiovascular problems, severe HTN. After that 1st semester she had a stroke. She is 90% recovered now, and back to work. I then realized that putting one's self under max stress is not ideal, and should be avoided if cardio problems run in a family. My daughter is really healthy, absolutely no cardio problems, but I don't want her under what I consider to be undue stress.

I personally did many of my credits for my AS and BS under major stress and in the summer. I did the summer A&P route twice since my credits had expired. I had the luxury of re-taking A&P 1 in a (16) week session, and that time I actually remember a scapula running by me. My daughter is taking A&P 1 this summer in a (10) week session. This is a push but it really beats the (6) week flash A&P course. The learning process is so much more meaningful when the basic "How am I going to live and exist" questions are answered. I want to teach my daughter how to pace herself so that she does not burn out on college and refuse to go back until many yrs later like I did.

[NOIRLINCOLN]

Yep, you are fortunate to have such a self-motivated daughter. There are a lot of good practicle reasons why getting the ADN now is a good idea. Those are the same reasons many of us went for the ADN first.

I know you only want the best for her good. Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

I was reading you post and the writing of the papers would really stop me in my tracks, but my daughter can sail right thru. We will have to stay in touch with you and get pointers on the execution of the RN to BSN.:)

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I was reading you post and the writing of the papers would really stop me in my tracks, but my daughter can sail right thru. We will have to stay in touch with you and get pointers on the execution of the RN to BSN.:)

Absolutely! Besides myself, there are lots of people on this board doing the RN to BSN thing. Just post any questions about it you have when the time comes. Good luck to both of you!

The papers are going to be the end of me. But I made an A on the first one! Woot!