Whats your feeling?

Louie18 · Apr 10, 2001

I see why this post has no responses.

Most won't know what it means and those that do realize nothing can be done.

Q. · Apr 10, 2001

My thoughts are kind of confused.

Here's my thoughts.

I am pro-choice. I do not agree with habitual abortions as a means of birth control, however. I feel that there are distinct differences between a woman who chooses abortion for whatever reason, and those who have 6, 7, 8 abortions and still keep getting pregnant.

My concept of when life begins is fragmented. As an OB nurse, I hear the heartbeat and all that well before delivery obviously. But my rationale is that the only safe definition of life, ie - a HUMAN BEING, is at birth. I feel the fetus is a "person" at birth only. Before that time, they are a fetus, an embryo, a gamete. They are "life" yes, but so are all cells in the body.

So as far as perinatal substance abuse - I think it's wrong - but to make it illegal or punishable by law would be inconsistent with the fact that abortion is legal in our country. I can't really agree with punishing a perinatal substance abuser if I agree with abortion. It's contradictory.

My solution? I would LOVE to implement mandatory sterilization to these women who are pregnant for the 6th, 7th, etc time, and either get abortions all the time, or keep having kids who are addicted to drugs or abused. In the long run, one tubal to these women would cost society alot less than paying for these abortions or caring for thier children. Sounds cold, yes, but that's what seeing these women and thier children do to you......

Kristina, I'd love to hear your opinion on this.

JennieBSN · Apr 10, 2001

Yo Susy...how's it hangin'? I only have a few minutes...gotta go to bed and get a few winks before work tonight. Anyhoo, I have my own little fantasy where this whole substance abuse/repeat pregnancy/abuse the system crap is concerned. I have a fantasy that one day, there will be a 'Depo Box' at every Welfare dept. in the country. In order to receive public assistance, the female head of household would have to physically come to the welfare dept. to pick up the check and food stamps. She would have to stick her arm through a black box (like a magician would have) to reach over the counter to get her check. When her arm was in the box...WHAMMO! Nail her with a depo shot. Heh heh. I've had many patients who I've wanted to BEG the doc to do a c/s on and 'accidentally' nick her fallopian tubes in the process...ahhh, what a dream that would be. I think women who abuse drugs and/or alcohol while pregnant should 1)lose custody of the infant immediately after birth, 2)be mandated to be treated at an inpatient facility where 3)they would recieve regular shots of depo. Why depo? Because you can't skip a pill with it, can't pick it out of your arm (norplant), can't poke a hole in it, can't 'forget' to use it, and it can't break in the middle of 'the act.' Did you hear about that woman (I think it was Florida) who was paying crackheads $500 to get their tubes tied? She's my hero... Gotta go...bedtime!

OBNURSEHEATHER · Apr 11, 2001

Thank you, kday. I used to have this sick feeling in my gut because I too believe that Depo should be mandatory for those receiving public assistance and repeat drug offenders. Think of all the money we would save in welfare, repeat unsuccessful drug treatments, court appearances, and NICU stays! Ya know what pisses me off? At my hospital, a welfare patient has to have signed her consent for a post partum tubal at least 30 days before the procedure, to ensure that no one is being "unethical" and talking her into unwanted birth control. No other insurance requires that. Any other woman can decide to have a tubal while her epis is being repaired and her wish is granted (what woman doesn't say immediately after birth "I'm never doing this again!") No one is ever concerned about her having 30 days to think about it. So if the consent isn't done soon enough or if mom delivers prematurely (which is often the case with crackheads) the window of opportunity has been missed. The docs usually say "she can get a tubal outpatient after 6 weeks". You think we see these patients in 6 weeks? No, we see them in about 10 months to a year! I heard of the woman in Florida, and I commend her for being so brave to address this concern! That woman has got bigger balls than any man I know!

Heather

Navy Nurse · Apr 11, 2001

Since working in a NICU, I get to witness the problems first hand. As medical professionals we seem to jump on the illegal drug cause and effect bandwagon rather rapidly, but research supports that at least 5% of all neonatal deaths are caused by mothers SMOKING during pregnancy and that millions of healthcare dollars are spent keeping the preemies on vents due to tobacco use.

And while I don't want to get into the social issues and would like to include one group you are leaving out in this responsiblity, Dead Beat Dads. We should also press for sterilization of men who have multiple children and do ot support them.

Q. · Apr 11, 2001

Navy Nurse-

That is an excellent idea!

hollykate · Apr 11, 2001

Don't have a very well developed opinion on the subject, but it totally amazes me that we must pass several exams to be able to operate a vehicle on the street, yet anyone with functioning organs can become a parent.

Level2Trauma · Apr 11, 2001

Originally posted by OBNURSEHEATHER:
Thank you, kday. I used to have this sick feeling in my gut because I too believe that Depo should be mandatory for those receiving public assistance and repeat drug offenders. Think of all the money we would save in welfare, repeat unsuccessful drug treatments, court appearances, and NICU stays! Ya know what pisses me off? At my hospital, a welfare patient has to have signed her consent for a post partum tubal at least 30 days before the procedure, to ensure that no one is being "unethical" and talking her into unwanted birth control. No other insurance requires that. Any other woman can decide to have a tubal while her epis is being repaired and her wish is granted (what woman doesn't say immediately after birth "I'm never doing this again!") No one is ever concerned about her having 30 days to think about it. So if the consent isn't done soon enough or if mom delivers prematurely (which is often the case with crackheads) the window of opportunity has been missed. The docs usually say "she can get a tubal outpatient after 6 weeks". You think we see these patients in 6 weeks? No, we see them in about 10 months to a year! I heard of the woman in Florida, and I commend her for being so brave to address this concern! That woman has got bigger balls than any man I know!

Heather

A woman with balls, She can't be a nurse then. At least I haven't met any with balls.

Louie18 · Apr 11, 2001

I feel any pregnancy is up to the female to decide wether abortion is the answer. (even though it's a million to one chance of my having one sperm live) However the entire situation falls upon socioeconomic status and available education.

CEN35 · Apr 11, 2001

Susy K, KDay and Heather? I have a question? I think you all read my mind and posted my thoughts exactly?

Rick

JennieBSN · Apr 11, 2001