What Is The Deal With All The Highly Educated & Professionals Becoming RNs?

[PMFB-RN]

So I pretty much always have nursing students with me. I have senior BSN students who are doing a critical care class (six 12 hours shifts), ADN students from 2 different programs doing their preceptorships (eight 12 hour shifts), ABSN students doing clinical (six 12 hour shifts), and direct entry MSN students who shadow me for a shift. In addition I come into contact with a variety of other students who are being taught by my RN co-workers. My hospital also has a "student nurse technician" program where they hire nursing students to do CNA type work. So I regularly talk to 5-10 nursing students a week and nearly always have a student with me each shift.

What I am so shocked about is the level of education of these students who are in nursing school. I can't even remember the last time I had a ADN student who didn't already have a bachelors degree with me. Of course the MSN and ABSN students already have bachelors degrees, but what is surprising to me is that so many are already professionals in others areas. I had a student who already has a bachelors and masters in architecture and worked for a well known local firm, I have had lawyers, police officers, scads of teachers, and a few engineers among others. Even a guy who is an MD in Russia.

Why do all of these people want to be nurses? Have any of you experienced this?

Back when I was in nursing school there were plenty of 2nd career types in my class but they tended to be factory workers, truck drivers, farmers, military vets who were moving up to become RNs. A few had bachelors degrees but not like now.

I actually find it frightening and a little sad. Frightening cause I suspect this is a symptom of a very bad economy and terrible job market. Sad cause I know so many of the will struggle to find work after making huge sacrifices to get through nursing school.

Some of them are SHOCKED when I tell them it's a tough job market out there for RNs and they will have to work hard and keep on their toes to find any job. Some simply refuse to believe me (nearly all the direct entry MSN students, ironic since they will struggle in our local market more than the others). Others already have this figured out and are already bitter about it.

[Jory, MSN, APRN, CNM]

People are shocked when I tell them, "There is a nursing shortage for experienced nurses, there is NO shortgage for new nurses" and it is the truth.

The fact is...the pay is so bad for new nurses that is why most of them are going to NP school.

I cannot say that I blame them...that is why I'm going. I'm not new, but 20 years experience is something that I do not have. When you get into the profession when you are older, you have expenses that you didn't have when you were younger.

I have a close friend who is young, newly married, wants to have a baby AND go to PA school. I told her, "Having children first will be the biggest mistake of your life...get school out of the way first." (she is 22, she absolutely has time).

You will NEVER see me post that school subs for experience...ever. I often envy the knowledge of my more experienced classmates. However, time, when you are older, is not your friend and you have to do what you have to do to support your family.

[Sadala, ADN, RN]

It's a symptom of a very bad economy, to put that at rest. But, I suppose there are those of us who hope to specialize in something that will also use our former expertise. There are a lot of specialties in nursing. And while there may not be a shortage now, as the boomers hit (and this is beginning to happen) I think this may change.

With government healthcare changing, I also think this may change. Maybe I'm just an optimist.

[Sadala, ADN, RN]

Plus and also, I'm a little tired of the nursing motto that only nurses have had these huge responsibilities at work, and/or the responsibility for life and death, and that others simply don't understand these responsibilities. MANY of us have been in prior positions where we "get" it all too well.

Perhaps some nurses need to leave the ivory tower mentality behind and realize that other fields can bring real strengths to nursing.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

*** The DE MSN students who shadow me are not APN students. The will graduate as entry level RNs the same as ADN and BSN grads. It that the kind of program you are refering to above? Those are pretty good numbers and that makes me ask are those regular bedside staff nursing jobs?

Localy there is a strong anti DE MSN bias. Those grads will face a harder job market than the ADN and BSN grads. It's a shame but the universities did it to them.

All the DE-MSN programs I know of here are APN programs. I wasn't aware there were non-APN DE programs, interesting. I'm not quite sure what the goal of that type of program is? Is is for management/administration or bedside? Post-masters preparation? Or is it to cleverly allow people maxed on undergrad loans tap into gRADPlus?

[wannabecnl]

All the DE-MSN programs I know of here are APN programs. I wasn't aware there were non-APN DE programs, interesting. I'm not quite sure what the goal of that type of program is? Is is for management/administration or bedside? Post-masters preparation? Or is it to cleverly allow people maxed on undergrad loans tap into gRADPlus?

I attended a 2-calendar year direct entry masters program and graduated in 2011 as an RN, not an APRN. I chose this route because I am interested in doing research at some point in the future, and generally a masters is the minimum requirement for working in nursing research. Our program prepared us to sit for the clinical nurse leader exam; for many, that was a sideline, though I loved what I read about the CNL role and hope to do that someday. At the end of the day, though, it was the same amount of time to get an ADN or an MSN, so it was pretty much a no-brainer. But I am a "real" nurse, working at the bedside, and loving it. A few of my classmates have gone on to NP school or CRNA school, but most of us are working at the bedside in a variety of departments. In some states it may matter what degree you have, but in our state, an RN is an RN is an RN; we don't get paid more for a masters degree, and most of my class had to really hustle for jobs, the same as other RN grads in the area.

I have an undergraduate degree in physics (found out in college that I was terrible at calculus but didn't know what to change to), and I've worked mostly in IT and hospital admin stuff (made more money teaching computer classes in 1993 than I'm making now!). I was always interested in healthcare, volunteered as a candy-striper and worked as an anesthesia tech when I was younger, and even my IT job was for a dialysis company. I knew I loved healthcare, had some limited clinical exposure, and am 100% in the right place now.

I have no illusions that I came out knowing more than an experienced ADN/BSN/diploma nurse, any more than a new grad from any other program could claim the same. I do hope that my degree program will enable me to someday do different things in nursing than I could have done with an ADN, because I do bring some professional experience that will be useful to the healthcare field when paired with nursing experience; I have no intention of leaving clinical work, though. I am proud of my MSN degree; it represents hard work and sacrifice, not just from me but from my family, and I am putting it to good use everyday with my patients in the PACU (not that an ADN does not require the same sacrifice--there is no easy route into nursing!!!!). I think some of my colleagues are skeptical about programs like mine, but that is not my problem; I go to work everyday committed to taking good care of people, learning, developing critical thinking, and becoming the best nurse I can be.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

That's great. Didn't know those programs were out there.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Plus and also, I'm a little tired of the nursing motto that only nurses have had these huge responsibilities at work, and/or the responsibility for life and death, and that others simply don't understand these responsibilities. MANY of us have been in prior positions where we "get" it all too well.

*** I find this to be a strange thing for you to say. Even after all the years I have been in nursing I have never heard this motto you refer to. I haven't read anything in the discussion written by anyone that would indicate that nurses think only they have huge responsibilities of life and death. I find your comment out of the blue and not in any way related to what has been discussed here. Help me understand where you get this idea.

Perhaps some nurses need to leave the ivory tower mentality behind and realize that other fields can bring real strengths to nursing.

*** I would think that would be so obvious and to not need mentioning. I certainly feel, as I have very often stated here, that the diversity among nurses is ne of our biggest strengths. I don't know of any nurses who wouldn't agree with that.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

All the DE-MSN programs I know of here are APN programs. I wasn't aware there were non-APN DE programs, interesting. I'm not quite sure what the goal of that type of program is? Is is for management/administration or bedside?

*** The graduate as new grad bedside nurses and are not qualified to get any job that would not also be open to a new BSN grad. They are just RNs, not APNs. We also have DE masters programs that are APN but students from those programs do not job shadow with rapid response (me).

Or is it to cleverly allow people maxed on undergrad loans tap into gRADPlus?

*** That is the most common reason I have heard for choosing the DE MSN. The sad part is that, at least locally, they face a real up hill battle getting hired. One of the larger health systems in the area doesn't even consider them for employment.

This is a direct result of some of the early DE MSN APN programs. The idea with those was that students would spend a year learning to become RNs, then work bedside for a year, then return for the APN portion of their program. This lead to many of these nurses taking jobs and accepting very expensive training, like our hospital's 9 month critical care nurse residency program, knowing full well in advance they would be leaving these jobs to complete the APN portion of their program after one year. This lead to a LOT of angst and bitterness among local hospitals. The current DE MSN grads are paying the price for those early APN students. My hospital got so angry that they no longer allow DE MSN students to do clinicals here.

[LoriRNCM, ADN, ASN, RN]

Very interesting thread for a 49 year old beginning her ADN program this August. While I do intend to further my education to my BSN and possibly MSN, as a new grad in Virginia with lots of medical facilities I certainly hope to be employed soon after getting my ADN. The educational snobbery of ADNs vs. BSNs vs. MSNs in the workplace seems very immature and childish and I'm hoping I don't see that in my future workplace. If a twenty something BSN/MSN tells me to go clean up her patient because she is more educated than I, we may have an issue.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

*** The graduate as new grad bedside nurses and are not qualified to get any job that would not also be open to a new BSN grad. They are just RNs, not APNs. We also have DE masters programs that are APN but students from those programs do not job shadow with rapid response (me).

*** That is the most common reason I have heard for choosing the DE MSN. The sad part is that, at least locally, they face a real up hill battle getting hired. One of the larger health systems in the area doesn't even consider them for employment.

This is a direct result of some of the early DE MSN APN programs. The idea with those was that students would spend a year learning to become RNs, then work bedside for a year, then return for the APN portion of their program. This lead to many of these nurses taking jobs and accepting very expensive training, like our hospital's 9 month critical care nurse residency program, knowing full well in advance they would be leaving these jobs to complete the APN portion of their program after one year. This lead to a LOT of angst and bitterness among local hospitals. The current DE MSN grads are paying the price for those early APN students. My hospital got so angry that they no longer allow DE MSN students to do clinicals here.

It's a shame the APN students don't rotate with you. I was fortunate to get a intensivist rotation while in grad school but I wish I had some RRT experience as well.

We have the same problems with our DE APN students here re: taking RN jobs and leaving them or moving into per diem in 18 months when they graduated as NPs. There really isn't a good solution there other than to drop the RN requirement for graduation which I am on the fence about.

[netglow, ASN, RN]

I think a lot of you are missing the point of this thread, and, in that, you are doing just exactly what PMFB-RN has described. Esme also wrote an excellent comment and the both are 100 percent correct.

If you have loads of money, have no need to be employed, then by all means go for it. If this is not the case and you are still in denial about all of this, I'd say that this board and it's members can be satisfied that you were told what the deal is for new nurses, straight up. We can't do a thing more for ya.

Swim on into nursing education, but at your own risk.

[WideOpenHeart]

I guess I am one of those highly-educated people to whom this post refers. I have a BA in English Literature and two masters degrees in (adult education and health promotion).

(Long story as to why I got TWO; basically, I got to do the second one on scholarship and jumped on the chance to learn more and fill time during the early empty-nest period. I was able to work full-time through both.)

The poster, I feel, hits on some very important points, as do so many others on this thread. (All Nurses forums are just filled with bright, amazing people.) This is a discussion that must be had. Like the poster, I feel great concern about the fact that people are making major, risky life/financial decisions based on the constant patter in the media and elsewhere about the nursing shortage (which is non-existent, of course, in many areas).

Here is a sort of laundry list of my reasons for "taking so many steps backward," in the words of one of my friends (who speaks for many of my friends, family members, and former colleagues, though not all).

1) After making a living in advertising, pr and marketing, the thought of spending the rest of my life meeting and helping people at their points of greatest need fills my heart with joy - especially after I've had the opportunity to spend a year and a half working with elders in poverty. Life experiences have, in fact, transformed me so thoroughly that helping others is really more than my passion in life. It's my reason for living. I don't think this is a problem, makes me co-dependent, or anything; I think it is the path God/the Universe (whatever you want to call it) had for me.

2) After experiencing true financial devastation twice in my life, punctuated by periods of chronic financial struggle, financial security is important to me. I am a widow, left with virtually nothing for reasons I won't go into here, and I feel no desire to remarry - so, I need to be prepared to manage my own. In my area, there truly is a nursing shortage (still), and even while I'm in my LPN program (yes, I'm doing my LPN first, then bridging to RN-BSN), recruiters will be coming to campus often. People in the field have assured me that I'll have no problem finding a job.

3) I'm all about moving, being active, and I have a limited ability to sit behind a desk. As time goes on, this becomes more and more true of me. As I've grown older, I've realized that such issues aren't problems to be overcome; they are key aspects of who we are - and they're clues about our purposes in life which mean something, when taken all together. Adapting for awhile is one thing, and can be the mature thing to do. But trying to re-make ourselves to suit a long-term lifestyle that doesn't work for who we really are is psychologically, spiritually and physically damaging.

4) When caring for ill or vulnerable people, I seem to experience something transcendent. It's like I go into a kind of zone in which I just know what to do, how to relate to the person, how to comfort, how to handle sticky situations... There is a sense of being exactly where I'm supposed to be.

5) Gross stuff doesn't bother me (anymore), and I think I should capitalize on that!

6) I don't want to move out of my geographic area now, even as I want to be able to move later, if/when that's right for my life and family.

7) I need variety. I mean, I really seem to need it, in my core being. That's another one of those signposts I mentioned above. Nursing offers variety aplenty.

8) I have other goals, which can work around a nursing life/schedule very well.

All this said, I just have a deep, peaceful, solid sense that I'm following the right path.

And after a lifetime of making decisions with my head (heavily influenced by others' opinions) and trying to ignore my "gut," I think I've learned the error of my ways.

Anyway, writing all of this out was good for me; I hope it helps someone else.

By the way, I think a lot of people affected by the crash realized the fragility and futility of the work they'd done to that point and wanted/want to do more meaningful work, instead - I'm sure that's driving this influx of the highly-educated into nursing as much (or almost as much) as the promise (valid or not) of financial security.